padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan) (07/23/85)
>In article <395@utastro.UUCP> padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan) writes: > >>There are two distinct topics that should not be confused here. >>The first concerns the form of society ( should it consist of hawks >>or doves? ), while the second concerns the individuals behaviour >>(should I be a hawk, or a dove?). For both hawks and doves, the >>most desirable guiding principles are that for a dovish society. >>(This assumes that survival, and protection of the self, are goals >>that are common to both hawks and doves. Criminals are not normally >>opposed to laws, only against them being used to curtail the criminal's >>activity). > >I don't see that this provides any moral force at all. It seems to bring >you to an argument that maximizing freedom is good for criminals because it >makes it easier for them to prey on others. Either that, or you must >advocate that, for some reason, it is more important to cater to the desires >of the victims than that of the criminals. So far, no one has attempted to >advance such a reason which holds any water. > >Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe You asked : >...Why should it matter? Why should I care about improving society? and went on to say : > It's not obvious to me that I would benefit directly from improving > society. Can you demonsrate the connection? Depending on the person > involved, one might feel that there is more direct benefit to be gained > by cheating and committing crimes. He may just have a different opinion > about the laws that would prevent him than most of us do. The paragraph you take issue with was in response to these comments, and demonstrates the connection. I don't know about "moral force", but the paragraph supports adopting restraint from violence as a guiding principle, which is all that was intended. It is a problem in a free society that criminals benefit. So what? Are you really trying to be that obtuse as to claim that people support free societies in order that criminals can benefit? Are you unable to distinguish between goals and side-effects? Padraig Houlahan.