beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Beth Christy) (09/06/85)
[G'head eat me, the brackets were dipped in bug-killer] From: pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman), Message-ID: <320@pyuxn.UUCP>: >The reason God >encourages faith so much is because faith means that you won't stop >to think about how evil God really is. From: pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman), Message-ID: <321@pyuxn.UUCP>: >I would think that part of the reason that they think of it as a >virtue is because God has infused into them the belief that faith is a >positive thing. In so doing, God has ensured his perpetuation in their >minds, since faith is the absence of a desire to ask questions and seek >knowledge. And asking questions and seeking knowledge would lead to a >realization about what God really is. Hmmm, well here I'm going to challenge your claim that you base your position on objective evidence. It's well documented, if not well understood, that terminally ill patients have a much higher chance of living longer, or perhaps even beating their illness entirely, if they have a strong will to live, if they have *faith* that they'll make it. Whether they have faith in their own strength, or in their doctors, or in God seems to be irrelevant - but the faith itself is crucial. Many job-hunting guides strongly advocate thinking positively about yourself before you enter an interview, having *faith*. Whether it's faith in yourself that you can control the interview, faith that the interviewer will be able to see your competence, or faith that God will get you the job, faith itself can significantly increase your chances of being offered a job. Conversely, patients who firmly believe that they'll die soon and job-hunters who are certain they'll never get a job are also affected by their faiths, but in a negative way. Faith is a real emotion and can have very real effects. Whether the effects are positive or negative depends only on what you have faith in. That much is true and well-documented. Now look at the God of the New Testament. God is advocating, above all, faith, which we've just demonstrated is an effective tool. And what is God advocating faith in? In an eternal, all-encompassing love. In a community of ultimate joy, which, no matter what else you may do, you will surely be a part of if only you keep the *faith* ("no man shall enter the kingdom of god except by faith"...or words to that effect, anyway). The New Testament is telling us to use this powerful tool and focus it on something totally, ultimately positive, and it'll get us through. And, based on objective evidence, I'd say it's right. Faith in a positive outcome helps cancer patients, it helps job applicants, and it helps Christians and Buddhists and ... and even atheists get thru hard times. I don't think it matters how you structure the faith, whether you have faith in God or in yourself or in others. As long as you truly believe there's something better coming, some reason to make it, and that somebody somewhere has the strength to pull you thru. The fact that the New Testament stresses this truth proves to me that it was not written with evil intent. The fact that you're trying to "enlighten" people, that you're asking people to give up their faiths in something so positive concerns me. They may really have faith in things that don't exist - but *it doesn't matter*. Even cancer patients who really Are going to die at least live longer when they have faith. Their faith is a help, and we all need any help we can get - you shouldn't try to make them give it up. My personal opinion? I don't know whether or not a god exists, but if it does, it isn't an omnipotent one. It has to work within the rules too. But somebody, god or not, cared enough about humans to try to help us get through the tough times that nobody, not even a god, can prevent. So they told us to believe that there was goodness and love, to keep the faith in something positive, something that loves uncondi- tionally and always has the power to get you thru. And even if there's really nothing else like that, the faith itself is like that. And it helps. -- --JB (Beth Christy, U. of Chicago, ..!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!beth) "Oh yeah, P.S., I...I feel...feel like...I am in a burning building And I gotta go." (Laurie Anderson)