ptl@fluke.UUCP (Mike Andrews) (10/18/85)
Hi,
Just a few words on this Christian's perspective on D&D games. A few years
ago I researched D&D for a presentation in the prayer group I belong to.
One of the women in the group was concerned about the long hours her
husband and son were putting into the game. Her son was also beginning
to see images in the dark.
I got as much material, both pro and con, that I could get my hands on.
It ranged from Christian articles to D&D newsletters. After all the
looking and reading I started talking to people and visiting stores that
sold the games. Seems the more detailed versions of the D&D games
tell you that you have a patron god that you
play the game with, whether you believe it or not. You are also required
to verbally call out spells. One of the characters of the game is shown in
a publication giving the `goats head sign.' This is a symbol used in satan
worship to signify `satan is lord.' My neighbor who teaches in the local
Bellevue school district told me that the kids there are encouraged to play
the game at school because of the belief that it helps their imagination.
He also said they greet eachother in the halls giving the goats head sign
as a signal that they play the game. They don't even know what it really
signifies.
Have you read any of the D&D magazines and newsletters? I don't have the
exact quotes handy but you'd be amazed. Remember many years ago when a
young boy who was gifted enough to let him into college early, somewhere
back in the mid-West I believe, was found in Texas (?) after having been
missing for some time. He got there living out a D&D game. He later committed
suicide. One D&D newsletter referred to it briefly; then went on to mention
how their sales went up. One dungeon master referred to himself as a god.
A lot of Christian terminology gets used (misused) in the games. Good and
bad are confused, murder and death are common place (the more advanced games
get pretty gory), and our God is not glorified. Yes, I've played the game.
The version I played was fun - until I began to think about what it
taught me.
Please - in my view the game isn't Christian. And its fruits are for you
to judge.
God Bless,
Mike Andrews
--
******************************************************************************
God said He would never leave me nor forsake me, and that I am His temple.
A man is what he thinks.
A body led by the soul is only 2/3 of a person : the soul tries to get rid of
the spirit.
A body led by the spirit is a whole person : the spirit works to make the soul
help the body. And a spirit led by God the Holy Spirit is invincible.
*******************************************************************************
ARPA : fluke!ptl@uw-beaver.ARPA
UUCP : {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, sb6, lbl-csam}!fluke!ptlentropy@fluke.UUCP (Terrence J. Mason) (10/19/85)
In article <1515@vax3.fluke.UUCP> ptl@fluke.UUCP (Mike Andrews) writes: >The version I played was fun - until I began to think about what it >taught me. >Please - in my view the game isn't Christian. And its fruits are for you >to judge. Ordinarily I wouldn't touch a posting like this with a ten foot pole, but I am so totally appalled that I feel compelled to respond. Regarding the first item, we may certainly be concerned about what our children may learn from a game. We should always be involved with what our children do because they do not possess the maturity and knowledge to know the difference between a game and a depiction of reality. You, and all other adults, should certainly be expected to be able to make this distinction on your own. As to the second statement, perhaps I am being too literal minded but I fail to see how any item that doesn't espouse your religious beliefs warrants your condemnation for that reason. Dictionaries, skate boards and station wagons are not Christian either. If I have misinterpreted your second statement, I apologize. However I strongly object to the tone of the article and the insinuation that the suffering of one troubled youth (I remember the incident) can be construed as a general indictment of any of his habits that you find objectionable. A game is a game and reality is reality. The problem is the confusion of the two, not the nature of either. terry mason
hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (10/20/85)
In article <1515@vax3.fluke.UUCP> ptl@fluke.UUCP (Mike Andrews) writes: > >Hi, > >Just a few words on this Christian's perspective on D&D games. A few years >ago I researched D&D for a presentation in the prayer group I belong to. How complete was your research? What were your opinions before you started this research? How many games by different referees did you watch? You claim to have played; For how long? How many different DMs? If I sound bitter, sorry, but I've seen the ridiculous gossip-dealing and superficial, prejudiced, one-sided tactics used by Pat Robertson and company, in their "expose'" of the "e-vile dee-mon-ical game that's seducing our innocent children to the Dev-ill" and it's made me ashamed. >One of the women in the group was concerned about the long hours her >husband and son were putting into the game. Her son was also beginning >to see images in the dark. Some people put long hours into golf, or into bridge, or into doll collecting, or into community theatre, etc. Many children go through stages of seeing things in the dark. I hope there was more to be concerned about than the time spent on an engrossing hobby, and I hope she had the sense to try to find a more basic cause for her son's problems than the immediate worry that the game was warping his mind (was she jealous or something?); Would she feel a similar concern if they spent a lot of time working on their car that the car was a thing of the devil? (Shades of Christine) >I got as much material, both pro and con, that I could get my hands on. >It ranged from Christian articles to D&D newsletters. After all the >looking and reading I started talking to people and visiting stores that >sold the games. Seems the more detailed versions of the D&D games >tell you that you have a patron god that you play the game with, whether >you believe it or not. First off, the game rules for AD&D, or D&D, both trademarks of TSR Games, go to such extremes to avoid the sticky issue of religion that they use a completely contrived system substituting the concepts of Law and Chaos, and a very clumsily drawn Good and Evil, to represent the philosophies of the characters. Specific myths, very sloppily adapted, are provided for the use of referees who are too ignorant or lazy to deal with the problem of religions, and the majority of games as run at the highschool level have such very oversimplified, sophomoric understanding of religion as to be laughable. The game is a role-playing game. This means you PRETEND to be your character in the same way you PRETEND to be a character in a play; you identify with the character no more, and no less, than you would with the protagonist in a very engrossing novel. Since people have religious feeling and belief, this is reflected in the model in the game, SUBJECT TO THE REFEREE'S guidance and regulation. Most good referees insist that a character has to have a patron deity, but most good referees also insist that the player does NOT worship that deity; I solved the problem in the campaign I run by having Christianity one of the possible religions; if a Christian player in my campaign is bothered, then that player will have only Christian characters. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT THE REFEREE SETS AS POLICY. Games other than the TSR games have set down other rules, and there have been cases where a local gamester will get carried away and try to make the players use actual grimoires, etc. The only reply anyone can make to this is, if a Christian is faced by this, how is it any different from any of the other hundreds of temptations faced in daily life? If some non-Christian is faced by it, how can it be worse than the hundreds of other things in daily life that bind to sinfulness? >You are also required >to verbally call out spells. One of the characters of the game is shown in >a publication giving the `goats head sign.' This is a symbol used in satan >worship to signify `satan is lord.' Depending on the game, players are required to indicate when their character, assuming the character can cast spells, is casting a spell. What is wrong with that? In some games the referee and players, to enhance the roleplay aspect, have fabricated spells, which have no power in the real world. Fantasy magic is not usually anything like the ritual magic based on invocation of demons, which Christians have traditionally opposed. It may be, and often is, based on a set of "rules of physics" different from those which hold in this world. The "goats head sign" is a very very old sign, which was stolen by Anton LaVey and the Satanist Church, with a meaning which varies based on the culture it was found in. In Europe during the Plagues, it was used as an avert-evil spell gesture, not that it seemed to work. In America, in the heavy-metal subculture with its "cute little bad boy" pseudo-rebellious pretense, the affectation of satanism includes the affectation of this sign. In every rule set I've ever read, and I have read most of them, it has no meaning. The artwork may include illustrations of someone using it in a spell, but I personally ignore the artwork in these things as it seldom relates to the rules. >My neighbor who teaches in the local >Bellevue school district told me that the kids there are encouraged to play >the game at school because of the belief that it helps their imagination. It certainly does train the imagination, although I am not sure it has a greater effect in that direction than any other kind of theatrics. >He also said they greet eachother in the halls giving the goats head sign >as a signal that they play the game. They don't even know what it really >signifies. If that is what they mean it to say then that is all that it signifies. In the real world the symbol is not the thing. That is one of those rules of physics in magical worlds, which don't apply to this world, or have you got evidence that says that the Lord has changed the rules? >Have you read any of the D&D magazines and newsletters? I don't have the >exact quotes handy but you'd be amazed. Oh good grief. I have a stack of D&D magazines as tall as you and in none of them is there any trace whatsoever of anything advocating satanism or occult practices, exactly the contrary; the editors and publishers go to extremes in their opposition to the foolish practice of taking game roles out into the real world. Yes, I WOULD be amazed. Show me. >Remember many years ago when a >young boy who was gifted enough to let him into college early, somewhere >back in the mid-West I believe, was found in Texas (?) after having been >missing for some time. He got there living out a D&D game. He later committed >suicide. One D&D newsletter referred to it briefly; then went on to mention >how their sales went up. One dungeon master referred to himself as a god. If this is an example of how you researched the issue, then I demand in Christ's name, that you be silent on this issue until you have done more research. You bring shame and mockery on the Church by your spreading of lies in the name of truth. Further, by your example you make those who do know about the game and the issue of James Egbert less likely to believe any truth you may hold. James Dallas Egbert III was a 15 year old boy who was in a computer science track. He was found in Texas after having been, essentially, kidnapped under questionable circumstances; James was gay, and an active member of the Gay Student Alliance. The kidnapping was totally unrelated to D&D, and in fact the whole truth was never released to the public, but the (sketchy) report was that James fell in with some less than wholesome types, accustomed as he was to the more reliable Gay men he knew from school. James' later suicide was also unrelated to D&D. >A lot of Christian terminology gets used (misused) in the games. Good and >bad are confused, murder and death are common place (the more advanced games >get pretty gory), and our God is not glorified. Yes, I've played the game. >The version I played was fun - until I began to think about what it >taught me. So, now "good and bad" are exclusively Christian terminology? Mike, as one Christian to another, I must point out to you two things. First, there are other formulations of morality that deal with good and evil, than the Christian view. Yes, murder and death can be pretty commonplace, especially in a simplistic game or in a game where there is essentially a war between the player characters and some enemy group. In a "gilded hole" mileau the justifications can be pretty flimsy. So, did you attempt to discuss this problem with your referee, and did you attempt to change the way you played? Second, God is not glorified in any explicit way by most things short of worship. Is God glorified by a golf game? By attending a movie? A (horrors) football game? Then what is the excuse for these things? Especially the latter? As a matter of fact, when I first started playing the game I had some real crises of conscience about the game. I felt that the time spent in the game might be better spent, which was true at the time; I was extremely disorganized and wasted much time with the game because it was a controllable escape from the stresses of a very obnoxious senior year. At no time was it demonic although at one point my obsession with it bordered on idolatry, and at that point I stopped playing for several weeks until I got my priorities straightened out. >Please - in my view the game isn't Christian. And its fruits are for you >to judge. The game is not Christian inherently in the same way that NO inanimate or abstract thing is Christian. It is ludicrous to say "this is Christian" about any thing which is not directly intended for or derived from Christian religious usage. And you'll have to show what its "fruits" are before you start judging. Hutch
credmond@watmath.UUCP (Chris Redmond) (10/20/85)
Re Dungeons and Dragons . . . >to verbally call out spells. One of the characters of the game is shown in >a publication giving the `goats head sign.' This is a symbol used in satan >worship to signify `satan is lord.' My neighbor who teaches in the local >Bellevue school district told me that the kids there are encouraged to play >the game at school because of the belief that it helps their imagination. >He also said they greet eachother in the halls giving the goats head sign >as a signal that they play the game. They don't even know what it really >signifies. I don't know enough about D&D to say anything about it, or its desirability for Christians. But I do want to say that I don't think the random use by children of a "goat's head sign" is anything to worry about. If someone makes a symbol without knowing what it means, then it means nothing to that person. To believe that a gesture made unintentionally can be evil is more like superstition than Christianity. (No disrespect intended to Mike Andrews, who raised this point -- I know he's arguing that we should be on the safe side, but I think he's gotten a little carried away.)
csg@pyramid.UUCP (Carl S. Gutekunst) (10/21/85)
entropy@fluke.UUCP (Terrence J. Mason) writes: >Ordinarily I wouldn't touch a posting like this with a ten foot pole, but I >am>so totally appalled that I feel compelled to respond. Probably the wisest statement on the net in years. But, having been a *Dungeon Master* (I prefer "Referee," since I rarely use dungeons) for six years, I too feel compelled to respond. Not so much that I disagree with Mike, since I agree with his conclusion -- caution is advised, especially with children. But I do wish people who criticize D&D would get their facts straight. One of the most misunderstood aspects of D&D is that it is a simulation. The player's "game piece" is a "character" who lives in the D&D world, the way the little shoe or whatever is you gamepiece when you play Monopoly. All of the character's actions are stated verbally or implied from context, but NOTHING IS EVER ACTED OUT BY THE PLAYER. Players do not wield swords or cast spells, *characters* do. I have periodically had problems with players who took the game too seriously. The most common effects of this were (1) a player taking it personally when another player's character does something bad to his, and (2) a player using his character against another player's character to take out a grudge from something that happened outside the game. Hardly a major problem. Occasionally you do have people who "live" in the game and cannot seperate the fantasy from reality. These people have a problem that has nothing to do with D&D, although D&D tends to attract them like a magnet. However, responsible referees usually will not play with them, and other players usually will have nothing to do with them either since they tend to be obnoxious and unruly. Another point to consider is that D&D is an *adult* game. It was never intended for children. Only the corporate greed of its creator, Tactical Studies Rules, Inc., has driven them to rewrite the D&D rules and market them to "Ages 10 and up." I will not play with children. Finally, keep in mind that the game is highly extensible. The *rules* include very little or nothing about the style of play, the characters morals or religious beliefes, local terminology, special symbols, etc. These are created by the referee. Hence, the "goodness" or "badness" of a particular D&D group depends almost untirely upon the ref. Regarding some of Mike's specific points: In article <1515@vax3.fluke.UUCP> ptl@fluke.UUCP (Mike Andrews) writes: >Seems the more detailed versions of the D&D games tell you that you have a >patron god that you play the game with, whether you believe it or not. True, many campaigns include a whole panthenon of gods and godesses, usually pulled from Greek and/or Norse mythology. These are not part of the standard rules; they must be added by the referee. And again it's the *character* who believs, not the player. Some referees chose to use Yahweh and Satan instead, and viola, now you have a Christian game. >You are also required to verbally call out spells. The *character* is assumed to call out spells. The player never does. >He also said they greet each other in the halls giving the goats head sign >as a signal that they play the game. A parent should approach the referee, tell him this is irresponsible, and ask him to tell the kids what the symbol means and that they should stop it. >Remember many years ago when a young boy who was gifted enough to let him into >college early, somewhere back in the mid-West I believe, was found in Texas >(?) after having been missing for some time. He got there living out a D&D >game. He later committed suicide. His name was Egbert, he entered Michigan State University in the fall of 1978 at age 16, majoring in Computer Science. Two years later he got bored with school, and walked out to live with some friends in Louisana. Some friends in Michigan finally tracked him down and talked him into coming back. There was a police manhunt going on for him at the time, however, so he went to Texas first before calling his parents, so as to keep his friends from becoming involved. Six months later, while at home on a term break, he shot himself in the head. End of story. D&D had nothing to do with it. I was there. >One D&D newsletter referred to it briefly; then went on to mention >how their sales went up. This was irresponsible, but typical for marketing of any product. >One dungeon master referred to himself as a god. Seriously or whimsically? It's a standard joke to refer to the referee as "god" since he controls the "lives" of the characters. If he was serious, with an attitude problem like that I doubt he'd find anyone to play with him. >A lot of Christian terminology gets used (misused) in the games. A lot of Norse, Greek, Roman, Tolkien, warfare, and other terminology gets abused too. This isn't anti-Christian, it's anti-literary. Most of D&D's creators knew almost nothing about history, language, religion, armed combat, or flight. (Or physics, for that mastter.) And it shows. Some refs have gone to great lengths to right some of these wrongs; most just make them worse. >Good and bad are confused, murder and death are common place (the more >advanced games get pretty gory), and our God is not glorified. Good and bad get confused? Interesting statement, because one of the strongest rules in D&D is the destinction between good and evil. Devils and demons, for example, are always evil, and almost always objects to be defeated. Players are usually either good or neutral. (Magic, like technology, is considered a natural force of the universe and therefore neutral.) Granted, you use armed combat to defeat oppenents, but this is not the forum to discuss the morals of war. And the more advanced games are *not* the most gory; the more beginner ones are. You obviously have never seen advanced D&D (referee 5+ years experience), which involves much more strategy and tactics than bloodshed. God *can* be glorified in D&D. It's a matter of how the game is played. > And its fruits are for you to judge. Now we get to the part I emphatically agree with. If the fruits of the D&D group you (or your friends) associate with are bad, then avoid it like the plague. The D&D group I played with produced much harmony and good will, and even brought two people to Jesus. These are fruits that I am proud of! -- -m------- Pyramid Technology Carl S. Gutekunst, Software R&D ---mmm----- 1295 Charleston Rd {cmcl2,topaz}!pyrnj! -----mmmmm--- Mt. View, CA 94039 {ihnp4,uwvax}!pyrchi!pyramid!csg -------mmmmmmm- +1 415 965 7200 {allegra,decwrl,dual,sun}!
homeier@aero.ARPA (Peter Homeier) (10/29/85)
[... munch, munch, munch ...]
This discussion on D&D and its effects has been fascinating to me. It is
clearly very interesting to many people, judging simply by the quantity
of mail on the subject. I would like to contribute as well, from the
experience that I have had in the game.
I learned D&D in 1974 when I entered CalTech, and I soon became engrossed
by this game. I became one of the most involved members of the gaming
community, having an already formed interest in fantasy, especially the
works of J. R. R. Tolkien.
The style of D&D that we played at CalTech was somewhat different from the
version played by most other groups. All we had to work from was the original
three books, and since these were clearly incomplete, the guys quickly
reworked the rules.
I eventually became a "dungeon master" myself, and moderated many adventures
into the underground world that I invented. When I went home for the summer
I introduced my brother and friends to the game, and kept it going.
I say all this to emphasize that I am not a stranger to the game. I was,
in my opinion, heavilly involved for several years. I eventually had a
magic-user progress to the 22nd level, in a system where that was
extremely difficult.
Through my experience, I have formed some opinions as to the popularity of the
game. D&D has an intense attraction which is due to the involvement of the
player in the character or characters that he is represented by. These are
sometimes alter egos, sometimes just imaginary friends. The fact that the
game is so open-ended is fascinating. You can literally have your character
do ANYTHING that a "real" person with those abilities could do. This frees
the player from all of the danger of actually engaging in combat, magic, etc.
but gives a whole lot of the thrill, especially to young people or immature
adults. Generally, the more powerful the player's imagination, the more
intense the gratification, and the more powerfully he can become bound to
the game.
One thing that makes the game fascinating is that you keep the same characters
from game to game. This makes them familiar characters that you identify
with and project through. As you continue to survive campaigns, you accumulate
experience, and for all characters, this means increased POWER in ways
particular to the class of character. This increase of power means that the
character becomes ever more valuable, not just to the campaign, but since
the character will strengthen the party, the other players find the one who
owns the powerful character ever more important to them personally. Thus
people can easily find that their own feelings of self-worth are tied to the
value that their characters are to the party.
Now I saw all of this happen, not only to myself, but to many other people at
CalTech. People got swept into the game, and became inextricably fixed,
without the power to drop it. It provided an artificial success and a set of
peers that would give acceptance on grounds completely different from normal
human relationships. I have seen it ruin grade point averages and isolate
people in an imaginary world. I myself remember saying one night to some of
my friends, after a game that had gone on til the small hours of the morning,
"D&D is a way of life!" And this was among intelligent, reasonably stable
young adults.
This was in a D&D system where the magic system was made like a kind of
science, where nothing was ever done in connection to real magic. I have
watched the evolution of D&D as a system with mounting concern and horror
and disgust. I have seen the rudimentary modeling of medieval clerics and
Biblical miracles in the first three books transformed into detailed
involvement in the most pagan and Satanic rituals possible, with all the
world's most debased idolatry exalted to normalcy, even required for play.
And here we come to a point that may stir considerable debate, but I still
feel compelled to make. And that is that there is a real realm of the spirit,
where some things exist that most people disregard as nonsense. I warn you,
that there is a conflict going on today that is throughout the entire earth,
but is invisible to the physical eyes. There is a general insurrection against
the just rule of God, and that insurrection is led by the fallen angel Satan.
This is what is described by the following verse:
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against
prinicipalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness
in the heavenly places." - Ephesians 6:12
This is why, in the end, this is not just a game. If we were talking about
things that were just not correct to imagine, or which were just inspiring
bad behavior, that would be bad enough. But when people steep themselves
in these things, even if they would never say that they believed any of it,
"It's just a game!", they open themselves to influences from the spiritual
realm for which they have neither awareness nor defence. I am not
saying that those who play D&D are possessed by demons. Some might, but in
general I am talking about an oppression that is less obvious but nonetheless
real. The kinds of gods and such that are talked about in modern D&D are
actual names in many cases of evil spirits that exist and work their darkness
in human minds today, anywhere they can find an entrance. I warn you
seriously, if you play D&D, you are playing with fire. You are dealing with
things which have a reality beyond what you know. And they are not good
entities, but evil, plotting your destruction and enslavement in whatever
way they can.
Most of us can still walk away from the game if we want to. There may be some
reading this that are not able to, either from force of habit or some dark
effect which bonds you to the game where you cannot stop. Jesus is the
answer. In His cross, Jesus defeated all powers and principalities (biblical
names for demons) and made a show of them, disgracing them in Jesus's total
victory over them. Call on Jesus, and He will deliver you. All believers
have been given complete authority over all spiritual darkness. I now exercise
that authority. In the name of Jesus Christ, I now bind and compell all
evil spirits which are oppressing, influencing or possessing the minds or
spirits of those reading this to immediately cease all such activity, leave
those people so afflicted and never return to afflict them again. In the
name of Jesus, begone and do not return.
If you are playing D&D, I advise you to stop. If you are thinking of starting,
I advise you not to. There is nothing positive that you can get through it
that you cannot get through far more healthy ways, like making real friends by
being yourself, not some imaginary character. Life is far more exciting than
the dark dungeons anyways. The wildest things you have ever seen there do
not in any way compare with the excitement of knowing Jesus! He is infinitely
more fulfilling. And He loves you, which is something you will never get from
D&D. You may get the acceptance of your peers, but that is only conditional
on your contributing to *their* fun and welfare. Jesus loves you
unconditionally. The Bible says, "He will keep you in perfect peace, if you
keep your mind stayed on Him." That's a whole lot better than keeping your
mind on darkness!
--
Peter Homeier ______
Arpanet: homeier@aerospace / o \_/
UUCP: ..!ihnp4!trwrb!aero!homeier \___)__/ \
The Aerospace Corporation, M1-108
El Segundo, CA 90245barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) (11/01/85)
[Peter Homeier discusses D&D (warning: flame-bait ahead!)] >Now I saw all of this happen, not only to myself, but to many other people at >CalTech. People got swept into the game, and became inextricably fixed, >without the power to drop it. It provided an artificial success and a set of >peers that would give acceptance on grounds completely different from normal >human relationships. I have seen it ruin grade point averages and isolate >people in an imaginary world. I myself remember saying one night to some of >my friends, after a game that had gone on til the small hours of the morning, >"D&D is a way of life!" And this was among intelligent, reasonably stable >young adults. People form all kind of obsessions, some of them destructive. I've known people who let their GPA's slip because of pool or bridge, too. As for being a "way of life", science fiction fans have been claiming that about SF for decades (FIAWOL) without having it ruin their lives. I guess a few had their lives ruined, though: they became SF writers :-). I strongly suspect that "intelligent, reasonably stable young adults" refers only to the others in your D&D group. >I have >watched the evolution of D&D as a system with mounting concern and horror >and disgust. I have seen the rudimentary modeling of medieval clerics and >Biblical miracles in the first three books transformed into detailed >involvement in the most pagan and Satanic rituals possible, with all the >world's most debased idolatry exalted to normalcy, even required for play. There is a phrase for this. It is called "Fundamentalist hysteria". >And here we come to a point that may stir considerable debate, but I still >feel compelled to make. And that is that there is a real realm of the spirit, >where some things exist that most people disregard as nonsense. I warn you, >that there is a conflict going on today that is throughout the entire earth, >but is invisible to the physical eyes. There is a general insurrection against >the just rule of God, and that insurrection is led by the fallen angel Satan. Mebbe so; so what? D&D players aren't real Satanists. Can you say "pretend"? >This is why, in the end, this is not just a game. If we were talking about >things that were just not correct to imagine, or which were just inspiring >bad behavior, that would be bad enough. But when people steep themselves >in these things, even if they would never say that they believed any of it, >"It's just a game!", they open themselves to influences from the spiritual >realm for which they have neither awareness nor defence. Actually, you *have* convinced me that there are people who lack the emotional maturity to play D&D - you are clearly one of them. Anyone as deeply awash in superstition as you are, to the point that you are unable to distinguish between reality and play, should avoid all fiction, be it games, TV, movies, or books. You are not ready. I'm surprised you don't keep your true name a secret, too; aren't you afraid some evil wizard will use it to steal your soul? >I am not >saying that those who play D&D are possessed by demons. Some might, but in >general I am talking about an oppression that is less obvious but nonetheless >real. The kinds of gods and such that are talked about in modern D&D are >actual names in many cases of evil spirits that exist and work their darkness >in human minds today, anywhere they can find an entrance. I warn you >seriously, if you play D&D, you are playing with fire. You are dealing with >things which have a reality beyond what you know. And they are not good >entities, but evil, plotting your destruction and enslavement in whatever >way they can. You are right for persons like yourself, Peter. Your mistake is in thinking there are very many like you. Anyone superstitious enough to take the Bible as some kind of Christian grimoire is also naive enough to take D&D manuals the same way. But there's no protecting such people from the power of their own unrestrained imaginations. Whether they poison their reasoning powers with D&D, or the Bible, or old Beatles albums, the problem lies in their own minds, not in the sources of their fantasies. >In the name of Jesus Christ, I now bind and compell all >evil spirits which are oppressing, influencing or possessing the minds or >spirits of those reading this to immediately cease all such activity, leave >those people so afflicted and never return to afflict them again. In the >name of Jesus, begone and do not return. I believe you have the honor of performing the net's first exorcism. I wonder if you've succeeded in destroying the line-eater? :-) - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ELECTRIC AVENUE: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,nsc,hao,hplabs}!ames!barry
das@ucla-cs.UUCP (11/01/85)
In <515@aero.ARPA>, Peter Homeier writes: > All believers have > been given complete authority over all spiritual darkness. I now exercise > that authority. In the name of Jesus Christ, I now bind and compell all > evil spirits which are oppressing, influencing or possessing the minds or > spirits of those reading this to immediately cease all such activity, leave > those people so afflicted and never return to afflict them again. In the > name of Jesus, begone and do not return. Uh, Peter, I spot three problems with this: 1) Why limit this exorcism only to the readers of your posting? 2) If indeed you have this authority over all spiritual darkness, then why worry about D&D anymore? You've already driven the demons away forever, so how can playing D&D cause them to return? 3) If indeed you have this authority over all spiritual darkness, then why not get rid of all evil spirits forever? It sure would make the world a better place.
entropy@fluke.UUCP (Terrence J. Mason) (11/01/85)
In article <515@aero.ARPA> homeier@aero.UUCP (Peter Homeier) writes: >This discussion on D&D and its effects has been fascinating to me. It is... >...in human minds today, anywhere they can find an entrance. I warn you >seriously, if you play D&D, you are playing with fire. You are dealing with >things which have a reality beyond what you know. And they are not good >entities, but evil, plotting your destruction and enslavement in whatever >way they can. > >Most of us can still walk away from the game if we want to. ... Maybe I am this month's guardian of sensibility; I just don't know anymore. There seems to be a discouraging increase in the number of people these days who are shouting 'devil worship' and 'witchcraft' or 'evil spirts' or even 'voodoo' (hexes upon us all!). The implication here seems to be that the 'evil spirts' are singling out the D&D players as likely candidates for either possession, or at least some devilish shenanigans. I was all geared up to unleash a heated reply when the humor of it struck me. I've been laughing ever since. With my apologies I remain yours, terry mason <insert disclaimer here>
hobs@ihu1n.UUCP (John A. Hobson) (11/04/85)
> In <515@aero.ARPA>, Peter Homeier writes: > All believers have been given complete authority over all > spiritual darkness. I now exercise that authority. In the name > of Jesus Christ, I now bind and compell all evil spirits which are > oppressing, influencing or possessing the minds or spirits of > those reading this to immediately cease all such activity, leave > those people so afflicted and never return to afflict them again. In the > name of Jesus, begone and do not return. OWEN GLENDOWER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep! HOTSPUR: Why, so can I, and so can any man; but do they come when you do call for them? --Shakespeare, Henry IV, Part I. -- John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihu1n!hobs