purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) (02/23/86)
In article <9187@ucla-cs.ARPA> cs111olg@ucla-cs.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev (the student incarnation)) writes: >In article <283@tolerant.UUCP> kathy@tolerant.UUCP (Kathy Kister) writes: >>> > P.S. Is it just my warped perception or are ALL born-again >>> > and fundamentalist Christians either dumbshits or assholes? >>> It's just your warped perception. You're a bigot, Oleg. >>I agree ! ! ! ! ! > >I don't agree... Judging by the attitudes of born-again, fundamentalist (and >identity) Christians on this net, they are mostly either severely mis-guided, >or are terminally gullible, or are not very bright, or are overwhelmingly >offensive. There are a few who are not too bad as people go - altho' so brain >washed that they can hardly see the world from behind the Bible.... I guess >I should not have said "ALL", but "most". But then, as Ray Frank has pointed >out, we dumb foreigners never learn how to speak English..... I have no idea how this got started but it certainly did grab my attention. I would certainly like to know where Oleg got this impression of Christians on the net. (Or, indeed, Christians in general.) If you would like to write to me and tell me I'd be most interested. Whether the pitch is as hardball as this posting or not is entirely up to you. I can't speak for every Christian on the net, but as for myself, I don't think that I'm misguided (but who among us does?) or brain washed. I'm pretty sure that I'm not gullible and as for bright, I entered a "highly ranked" college at 16 and am a classics major. (Ancient Greek and Latin aren't exactly a breeze.) So I guess my opinion on that is that I can at least hold my own. As for offensive, that's in the eye of the beholder I guess. And it's my opinion that I'm not the only Christian on the net who has at least a few redeeming qualities. >And yes, I *DO* dislike Christianity. Strongly dislike it. Any reason I should >not?! Christianity is responsible for giving birth to wonderful and humanistic >endeavors like crusades, witch hunts, slavery in America, destruction of >Amerindian cultures and peoples, Inquisition, pogroms..... Why SHOULD I like >people who worship a for-a-long-time dead man on a stick, who drink his blood >and eat his flesh, who feel guilty for being human and having a human body, >who deny themselves most pleasures in life in the name of their ephemeral "god" >in words while submerging in depravities in deeds. Who can follow such a >monstrous teaching in their right mind or in full honesty?! What about people like Mother Theresa, Saint Francis, Thomas Moore and hundreds and thousands of other people who aren't as well known? The various churches do an amazing amount of charity work each year, most notably the Catholic church and the Quakers. There are strong Christian forces working for nuclear disarmament and feeding people in Africa (as well as in other countries including the US). I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they are in the past. They do not reflect the basis of Christianity (Love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself) nor do they reflect presentday Christianity. Do you hate the Germans and Japanese because of World War II? As to feeling guilty for being human or having a human body, I know of no Christian who feels that way, athough there may be some. I certainly don't feel that way. Nor do I deny myself most pleasures in life. As for being depraved, well, ok, I've been accused of that, but it was usually meant in a fairly positive way. ;-) Uh, one last note. Why is this on net.singles? Share and enjoy - elizabeth g. purtell (Lady Godiva)
jwp@sdchem.UUCP (John Pierce) (03/02/86)
In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: > I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible > acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they > are in the past.... Ireland John Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego jwp@chem.ucsd.edu
purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) (03/04/86)
In article <124@sdchema.sdchem.UUCP> jwp@sdchem.UUCP (John Pierce) writes: >In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: >> I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible >> acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they >> are in the past.... > >Ireland It's true - Christians as well as Jews, Moslems and other "people of God" are constantly fighting each other "in His name". Like Mike Royko said in one of his columns that was written as a letter to God (paraphrased): "p.s. I don't believe all the talk going around that you are dead, God. You can't be. We don't have a weapon that reaches that far." Justice and Hope - elizabeth g. purtell (Lady Godiva)
purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) (03/04/86)
In article <124@sdchema.sdchem.UUCP> jwp@sdchem.UUCP (John Pierce) writes: >In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: >> I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible >> acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they >> are in the past.... > >Ireland Sadly it's true - it seems like there are always Christians, Jews, Muslims and other "people of God" fighting each other about who is really right about Him. It's like Mike Royko said in an article that he wrote as a letter to God (paraphrased): "p.s. I don't believe all the talk going around about you being dead, God. You can't be. We don't have a weapon that will reach that far."
terry@nrcvax.UUCP (Terry Grevstad) (03/05/86)
jwp@sdchem.UUCP (John Pierce) says: >In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: >> I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible >> acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they >> are in the past.... > >Ireland Ireland is an example of people's inhumanity to people, and in imperfect concept of Christianity. I cannot believe that the Pope and whoever is the figurehead for the Protestant church condone in any way what is going on in Ireland. It is just another example of people latching on to any excuse to kill other people who don't happen to be the same as they are. DON'T BLAME HUMAN STUPIDITY ON CHRISTIANITY! -- \"\t\f1A\h'+1m'\f4\(mo\h'+1m'\f1the\h'+1m'\f4\(es\t\f1\c _______________________________________________________________________ Terry Grevstad Network Research Corporation ihnp4!nrcvax!terry {sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!terry ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!terry
ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) (03/05/86)
In article <2657@reed.UUCP>, purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: > In article <124@sdchema.sdchem.UUCP> jwp@sdchem.UUCP (John Pierce) writes: > >In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: > >> I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible > >> acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they > >> are in the past.... > > > >Ireland > > Sadly it's true - it seems like there are always Christians, Jews, > Muslims and other "people of God" fighting each other about who is > really right about Him. It's like Mike Royko said in an article that he > wrote as a letter to God (paraphrased): > > "p.s. I don't believe all the talk going around about you being > dead, God. You can't be. We don't have a weapon that will reach that > far." You forgot to include atheists and agnostics who also have been killing each other since forever. A good example of this is the old Roman empire. They killed for a thousand years, not for God or gods, but rather what mankind usually kills for; self serving greed, power, pride and honor. Russia, which is killing in Afghanistan right now as we talk, is a proclaimed atheist country. Mankind is a killer because of his very nature, not because of his God or gods. He only uses God as his scapegoat so as not to be confronted with the truth about his real nature. But then, we've always been good at rationalizing, so what else is new. There are tens of thousands of murders and other violent crimes commited in this country yearly, does anyone out there think these acts are done in the name of God? You might as well blame your cat for wars and suffering as blame God, well why not, any god in a pinch will do, right? But the next time a person commits a violent act in the name of God and looks in the mirror, he well not see God, but just himself. ray
ptl@fluke.UUCP (Mike Andrews) (03/06/86)
Hi,
One thing to remember about the problems in Northern Ireland, is that
it is people committing the horrible acts on their own, as well as people
who are trying to end them but with God's help. It is clear that not everyone
who claims to be acting on behalf of God, actually is. Jesus is the
Christian model, and the thugs and killers, and other hate spreaders
aren't following Christ's example.
It is not a religious war, you'll notice that the Protestants and
Catholics in southern Ireland aren't beating eachother to death; and
that the bombings there and in England can be traced to the IRA and
some of their equally radical opponents. Besides that, the IRA has
publically stated that they are out to take over Ireland.
I have quite a bit of family still living in Ireland. <Remember that God told
the Roman Catholics [ :-) ] to go forth and propagate!> They don't support
the IRA, and they see it as an economic war [Northshore oil, etc]. For that
matter, when one of my uncles visited here, he went into a bank and almost
had a heart attack when he saw all the signs advertising for people
to put their money into IRA's. We had to explain to him that the bank was
not collecting money for the rotten IRA, only encouraging people to save
money in IRA's.
Lastly, just an interesting aside - Northern Ireland is about only twice
the size of King County here in the lovely State of Washington. Southern
Ireland is a lot bigger. The Irish are wonderful, loving people. The
media gives lots of attention to the comparatively few ugly people. Just
look at the many many beautiful ones, and support them all in prayer.
God Bless,
Mike Andrews (PTL)
--
*******************************************************************************
God says He is always with us, and will never leave us.
*******************************************************************************
ARPA : fluke!ptl@uw-beaver.ARPA
UUCP : {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, sb6, lbl-csam}!fluke!ptlcs111olg@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/07/86)
In article <15859@rochester.UUCP> ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) writes: >> Sadly it's true - it seems like there are always Christians, Jews, >> Muslims and other "people of God" fighting each other about who is >> really right about Him. > You forgot to include atheists and agnostics who also have been killing each >other since forever. A good example of this is the old Roman empire. They >killed for a thousand years, not for God or gods, but rather what mankind >usually kills for; self serving greed, power, pride and honor. Russia, which >is killing in Afghanistan right now as we talk, is a proclaimed atheist country Soviets (NOT Russians!) are killing in the name of IDEOLOGY (at leas that's the claim). That's what passes for religion back in the Old Country. >Mankind is a killer because of his very nature, not because of his God or gods. >He only uses God as his scapegoat so as not to be confronted with the truth >about his real nature. In case of Islam, Jewdaism and X-tianity it's not a "scapegoat" but "justification". X-tians use Satan as a scapegoat, as in "Satan made me do it!" Soviets blame everything on the "necessity to combat the American and Zionist imperialism", U.S. blames everything on having to defend from "commies", etc. >But >the next time a person commits a violent act in the name of God and looks in >the mirror, he well not see God, but just himself. Witch burnings, American Indian slaughterings, Crussades - those were not quite PERSONAL acts. The were induced by the culture and allowed (and justified) by the religion. People felt no guilt or remorse. They felt righteous and holy... THAT'S WHY I am anti X-tian. You might say "But what about other religions that justified violence and murder?" Well, I dislike RELIGIONS IN GENERAL. But I can't remember the last time an Azteck knowcked on my door at 8 am on Saturday to "talk about the salvation his God offers" or group of Egyptian cultist were trying to shove "Jews for Set" or "Ra saves" button in my hands.... It's like the net, you know, The more you post the more you get flamed! :-) Oleg Kiselev ucla-cs!cs111olg
purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) (03/08/86)
In article <15859@rochester.UUCP> ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) writes: > In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: >> Sadly it's true - it seems like there are always Christians, Jews, >> Muslims and other "people of God" fighting each other about who is >> really right about Him. > > You forgot to include atheists and agnostics who also have been killing each >other since forever. A good example of this is the old Roman empire. They >killed for a thousand years, not for God or gods, but rather what mankind >usually kills for; self serving greed, power, pride and honor. >He only uses God as his scapegoat so as not to be confronted with the truth >about his real nature. But then, we've always been good at rationalizing, so >what else is new. There are tens of thousands of murders and other violent >crimes commited in this country yearly, does anyone out there think these acts >are done in the name of God? You might as well blame your cat for wars and >suffering as blame God, well why not, any god in a pinch will do, right? But >the next time a person commits a violent act in the name of God and looks in >the mirror, he well not see God, but just himself. Of course atheists, agnostics, and all sorts of people kill each other. That wasn't the point. There is no irony in someone killing someone because they did something to make the first person hate them. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no irony in it. There is however, an irony in people who profess to be following a loving God and then go and kill people who do not follow that god. And there are people who legitimately believe that the violent acts they are committing are what their god wants them to do. If religion is being used as a scapegoat, then it is being used so unconsciously, at least in many instances. I'm not attacking Christianity (it would be a pretty silly thing to do since I am a Christian) but I'm admitting that there are numerous bad examples of Christianity. I don't think that it has anything to do with God - I think it's all part of man's absurd nature. But it does reflect very badly on the religion, and consequently on Jesus Christ himself. And I think those are things that Christians have to deal with. If we as Christians profess to have "the Truth", and our fellow "Christians" are out murdering people in the name of our God (the same God) then it's something that we have to deal with. We can't just say, "well ALL types of people committ violent acts, not just Christians or people who believe in a God." That doesn't excuse us. ("But mom, all the guys are doing it!") We still have to answer to people who wonder how our religion can be valid if so many people who follow it commit such heinous acts. Share and enjoy - elizabeth g. purtell (Lady Godiva)
nyssa@abnji.UUCP (nyssa of traken) (03/10/86)
> You forgot to include atheists and agnostics who also have been killing each >other since forever. A good example of this is the old Roman empire. Apollo: Hey, Zeus, you hear what happened? Jupiter: No, what? Apollo: It seems we are no longer Gods! Jupiter: Ah, you mean that Ray Frank person on Usenet. Apollo: Yep. It seems that when you go out of fashion, you lose your godhood. Jupiter: No, that's not true. Ray Frank is really one of my creations, he is supposed to show the world how stupid that upstart Palestinian religion really is. Alas, they don't know that, yet. Apollo: Foolish humans, how long until they realise that we were the only true gods! Zeus: Oi! What about us???? :-) -- James C. Armstrong, Jnr. {ihnp4,cbosgd,akgua}!abnji!nyssa "But Doctor, we're on that island!" "Oh my word!" who said them, what story?
sanjiva@goedel.UUCP (Sanjiva Prasad) (03/16/86)
> In article <2586@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: > > I do not deny that the above mentioned instances are horrible > > acts, perfect examples of man's inhumanity to man as it were, but they > > are in the past.... > > Ireland > > John Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego > jwp@chem.ucsd.edu Beirut Sanjiva Prasad ( Believe Ron or not (:~) )