rush@cwrudg.UUCP (rush) (10/03/86)
In article <3697@ism780c.UUCP> marty@ism780c.UUCP (Marty Smith) writes: >I never instruct God to do anything. I never even ask God to do anything. [ This is just a side note: I am glad that you do not 'instruct' God to do anything. We are instructed by Jesus to ask things of God. "Truly, truly I say to you, if you shall ask the Father for anything, He will give it to you in My name" - John 16:23 "If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" - Luke 11:13 ] >When I say "God damn it," I express >how I feel: very negative. If, on the other hand, I believe that I can >presume the prerogatives of God and I say "God damn it," then I am guilty >of using God's name in vain. Now to the meat of the matter: "But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices." -Colossians 3:8,9 Scripture speaks about the difference between the old unregenerate man and the new life of all men who are in Christ at great length. In fact I believe that scripture can speak on this subject much more clearly than I. "But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine...in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, in order that the opponent may be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. " -Titus 2:1,7-8 "But no one can tame the tongue...With it we bless our Lord and Father; and with it we curse men...From the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. Does a fountain send out from the same opening both both fresh and bitter water?" -James 3:8-11 Personally, I think that the reason that scripture speaks about the speech of the believers as it does, is because our speech is one of the most visible aspects of our christian lives. What is it that people about you see when you curse? Is it Christ Jesus? Paul writes "do not be conformed to the world." (Romans 12:1) The world about certainly does curse, and in fact I see it quite often. On the issue of relieving negativity: "And so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you....And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts...And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father." -Colossians 3:12,13,15,17 Does your swearing give thanks to God? Does feeling "negative" (angry,wrathful, etc...) spring from a thankful heart? I do not claim that I am never angry or unthankful in my heart towards God. In fact I have just finished spending the most miserable summer of my life being angry at God in my heart. However, the place the that anger was relieved was in my prayer closet, when I was on my knees, repenting before the Lord. There is no joy without God. The prayer closet is the appropriate place to relieve negativity, where I cannot cause my brothers to stumble. >Christiandom has not allowed the >Bible to change over the centuries. Thus, the Bible has lost meaning >rather than gained. > The message of the Bible does not need to change. I understand it to be this: God is and is Holy. Jesus is God incarnate (an amazing thing). Christ was crucified to atone for man's sins. Jesus rose from the dead. I personally believe that those parts of the Bible that are not declaring these things are describing the implications of them. The meaning of the Bible does not need to change "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, yes and forever." (Hebrews 13:8) >And please forgive me; I sense that I have offended you with my arguments. >That is not my purpose. > > Marty Smith I can see that it was not your purpose to offend, none is taken. However, we are also not to conduct our lives in a way to cause offense. In closing I would also offer this scripture - "Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the destruction of the hearers." (2 Timothy 2:14) In Christ's name, Richard Rush - just another Jesus freak in computer science decvax!cwruecmp!cwrudg!rush All scripture quotations are from the New American Standard Bible.
marty@ism780c.UUCP (Marty Smith) (10/06/86)
Organization: Richard, most of your posting was based on the wisdom that is in the Bible, and so I found it to be of great value. On the issues below, however, I disagree. In article <153@cwrudg.UUCP> rush@cwrudg.UUCP () writes: > >On the issue of relieving negativity: > > "And so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, > put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, > and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, > whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave > you, so also should you....And let the peace of Christ rule in > your hearts...And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the > name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the > Father." > -Colossians 3:12,13,15,17 > >Does your swearing give thanks to God? Does feeling "negative" (angry,wrathful, >etc...) spring from a thankful heart? I do not claim that I am never angry >or unthankful in my heart towards God. In fact I have just finished spending >the most miserable summer of my life being angry at God in my heart. However, >the place the that anger was relieved was in my prayer closet, when I was on >my knees, repenting before the Lord. There is no joy without God. The prayer >closet is the appropriate place to relieve negativity, where I cannot cause >my brothers to stumble. My swearing does not give thanks to God. Neither does it blame God. But I think the issue of swearing has worn out its welcome here. The issue of negative feelings, however, is interesting. I think, since I became an educated person (whatever that means), I have never been angry at God. It simply doesn't make any sense. *I* am responsible for my actions, not God. If I make a mistake, it is my responsibility, not God's. If an earthquake causes a house to fall on me, that's the way the universe is. That *is* God. It makes no sense to waste time complaining that God ought to be otherwise. When I'm angry, I take responsibility for my anger, and, knowing that it will destroy my body and my mind if I do nothing about it, I relieve it in one of many ways that works. One of those ways that works for me is by cursing. It is commendable that you, filled with rage, can go into a closet, meditate, and come out with a smile on your face, but it doesn't work for me. For me, anger almost always manifests itself physically, and I jump up and down and curse: scream therapy. It works. >>Christiandom has not allowed the >>Bible to change over the centuries. Thus, the Bible has lost meaning >>rather than gained. >> >The message of the Bible does not need to change. I understand it to be this: > > God is and is Holy. > Jesus is God incarnate (an amazing thing). > Christ was crucified to atone for man's sins. > Jesus rose from the dead. If that's all there is to the Bible, then we can do away with it and just use your clear, concise summary. But, of course, that's not the case. There is much more to the Bible. My point was that, unfortunately, the Bible has been translated many times, and the meanings of the words have changed in the millenia since it was written. It seems at least reasonable then that without changing the words to keep up (not The Word, but, the words), the meaning would also change (not the intended meaning, but, the meaning we get when we read the words (not The Word, but, the words)). >I personally believe that those parts of the Bible that are not declaring >these things are describing the implications of them. The meaning of the >Bible does not need to change "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, >yes and forever." (Hebrews 13:8) Good point. In fact, if the meaning of the Bible changes, then something is wrong. Marty Smith