frankk@mcvax.UUCP (Frank Kuiper) (07/18/85)
Some time ago I asked netland for info on how to digitize
something, so MacPaint could read it. Well here is my reply
to the net, as promised.
In the may issue of MacWorld I found some adds on two digitizers
not mentioned in the replies I got:
1) Mac Private Eye
I/O Video Inc
225 Third St
Cambridge, MA 02142
(617) 547 4141
This is a video digitizer. Costs $595, and it doesn't say if
that includes a camera.
2) Mac Tablet
Summagraphics Corp.
777 State Street Extension
P.O. Box 781
Fairfield, CT 06430.
(203) 384 1344.
This uses a tablet on which a photo is placed. You digitize
it using a pen on that tablet. It clames to have a resolution
of 500 lines per inch. The MacWorld add lets you take a $50
rebate if you send in a coupon to the above mentioned address.
It does not say what the thing costs ...
Most people mentioned ThunderScan, which is probably the most
popular one around. Some of the responses are rather long, so you
best print it and read it by the fire side ...
Frank
___
Frank Kuiper, CWI, Amsterdam. _][__| |
...{decvax,philabs,seismo,okstate,garfield}!mcvax!frankk <_______|-1
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. O-O-O
************************************************************
From: cvaxa!sakw
There are at least 4 digitizers for the Mac; they were reviewed in MacWorld
a couple of issues ago (April issue, FK).
Prices are US$300 up & they all generate MacPaint format files.
Regards, Sak W
**************************************************************
From: John W. Peterson <seismo!UTAH-20.ARPA!utah-cs!JW-Peterson>
There's a widget called "ThunderScan" that uses a light sensor hooked up
to the imagewriter printhead to digitize photos.
We've written software here to create macpaint pictures from other sources,
and it works reasonably well (though not great...).
-------
**********************************************
From: decvax!ucbvax!cc-20 (Peter "Arrrgh" Korn)
The hard&software that I use (and the best, from what I've seen) is
ThunderWare by the man of Switcher fame, Andy Hertzfield. As a bonus,
the software will allow you to cut as large a piece as you want of
a MacPaint document (and will actually create MacPaint format documents
that are larger than normal sized, if the thing digitized is larger.
Peter Korn
ASUC Computer Store
U.C. Berkeley
P.S. Offhand, I don't know our price. It's something under $200.
***************************************************************
From: seismo!cmcl2!lanl!lrb (Loren Berg)
Frank:
I have been using the ThunderScan manufactured by Thunderware, Inc. for about
a week. The ThunderScan system consists of a scanner cartridge and a software
package for manipulating digitized images.
The scanner replaces the ribbon cartridge in the ImageWriter and can
digitize any flat image that can be rolled through the printer. The printer
cable plugs into a switch box which is then plugged into the printer port
on the Mac. A switch allows switching between the scanner and the printer.
It is also possible to plug the scanner into the modem port and leave the
printer plugged into the printer port in this case you don't need the switch.
The software allows you to set the contrast, brightness and size of the scan.
The image can be digitized into a MacPaint-like format (one bit/pixel) or it
can be digitized in 32 grey levels. The size of the image can be reduced or
enlarged by as much as 400% depending on image size, memory size and
available disc space. If the grey levels are saved you can alter
the brightness and contrast of the image after scanning to improve the
quality of the picture. The application also has a few of the MacPaint
editing tools: selector, scroller, pencil, eraser and FatBits. An image
can be saved as a ThunderScan file (along with its grey scale) or as a
MacPaint file or both. The format of the ThunderScan file is documented
so you can write other applications to use it.
Advantages of the system:
. The high quality of the resulting images - if the 400% enlargement is used
it scans almost 300 dots/inch.
. The software used for editing and enhancing the image is very good.
. The documentation is good.
. It is not copy protected.
. The price is reasonable - retail is $229.00 and you do not need a video
camera.
Disadvantages:
. The only problem that I've found is that the scanning process can be slow.
Depending on memory size and image size it can take more than 30 minutes
to digitize a page. A 512K memory and a hard disc would probably reduce
this time.
Conclusion: It is one of the best products I've seen for the Mac.
The company is: Thunderware, Inc.
21 Orinda Way
Orinda, CA 94583
(415) 254-6581
Hope this helps,
Loren Berg.
****************************************************************
From: Doug Moen <seismo!ihnp4!watmath!watcgl!kdmoen>
Here's everything you need to know:
Doug Moen (watmath!watcgl!kdmoen)
University of Waterloo Computer Graphics Lab
>From: roy@nlm-vax.ARPA (Roy Standing)
>
>Last September I posted the results of my initial investigations into
>video digitizer systems for the Mac. I will incorporate those comments
>in this posting. At that time I had found six systems of which only one
>was a released product. Four of the systems have now been released and
>I have tested each of these. Of the remaining two systems, one will be
>released shortly and the other is a text scanner only and thus falls
>outside of my immediate interest.
>
>The following discriptions and impressions are exclusively my own and
>represent those of a novice to digitizers, cameras, and lighting. The
>posting is in two parts, part I, this document, contains my comments
>while part II, submitted to SUMEX and net.sources.mac, contains sample
>MacPaint files for each of the systems. There are up to three kinds of
>MacPaint files for each system:
>
> a) produced by manufacturer -- should represent optimal quality,
> b) produced by me -- straight black and white, and
> c) produced by me -- pseudo-gray scale.
>
>Where possible (read: when I had my act together), I captured the same
>image with multiple systems.
>
> 1) Micron Technology, Inc.
> Vision Systems Group
> 2805 E. Columbia Road
> Boise, ID 83706
>
> (208) 383-4106
> TWX: 910-970-5973
>
> Product Name: MicronEye
> Price: $395.00
> Availability: immediate
>
> Description: This is a complete system as delivered and connects
> to the Macintosh via the modem port. It uses an OpticRAM which is
> exposed by the light coming through the lens and then the contents
> of the OpticRAM are read into the Mac. The physical layout of the
> light sensitive elements is:
>
> 1 1 0 0 1 1
> 0 0 1 1 0 0
> 1 1 0 0 1 1
> 0 0 1 1 0 0
>
> The 1s indicate the location of the sensors and the 0s indicate
> locations where there are no sensors. The Camera software provided
> offers a variety of ways of filling in these empty sensor locations;
> which works best is dependent on the picture and the desired image.
>
> Impression: I obtained the system to get some exposure (no pun
> intended) with video digitizing. In fairness, I did not expect this
> product to meet my requirements. It does not meet my requirements
> but was valuable as a training ground when no other systems were
> available.
>
> On the plus side, the software is easy to use and I have digitized
> a variety of images, including handwritten labels on a magtape.
> Being a complete novice I had a lot of difficulty focusing on anything
> more than a foot from the camera, but on frontlit materials placed
> about six inches from the lens I obtained reasonable results. High
> contrast materials produce the best results. The enhancement features
> are very easy to use and give some impressive results. I found the
> greatest success when I used the Gray Scale capture mode which takes
> four pictures at different exposures (based on your initial exposure
> setting), fills in the empty sensor locations using linear interpolation
> and creates a dithered image on the Mac.
>
> On the minus side, I couldn't place material more than a foot away
> from the lens although the instruction manual says the lens is
> designed for viewing at a distance of AT LEAST 18 inches. This
> could be my fault, but points up a difficulty in using the product.
> The biggest frustration was in using the enhancement features, simply
> because they seemed so useful. The enhancement features are:
>
> Fill> 2 for each empty sensor location, count the on
> sensors immediately above, below and adjacent;
> if all three are on turn the empty sensor
> location pixel on
>
> Fill> 1 for each empty...; if at least two are on turn
> the empty sensor location pixel on
>
> Fill Horizontal for each empty sensor location, look to the
> nearest data sensor in the same row and set the
> empty sensor location to the same value
>
> Invert reverse on and off
>
> Smooth Edges turns off a pixel if less than 4 of its nearest
> 8 neighbors are on
>
> Clear Interior turns off a pixel if the pixel above, below, to
> the right and to the left are on
>
> Set Interior changes off pixels to on if at least seven of
> its nearest neighbors are on
>
> The problem is that you can not use any option multiple times on an image.
> In addition, you can not save an image to a MacPaint file, edit it in
> MacPaint and reload it into the Camera system for further processing.
>
> Summary: It is a rather limited system based on a novel technology.
> I would not recommend it, it was a good training system at the time.
>
> MacPaint files: There is 1 file.
>
> a) label -- produced by me, pseudo-gray scale. The image is part of
> a handwritten label from a magtape.
>
> 2) New Image Technology, Inc.
> Suite 104, 10300 Greenbelt Road
> Seabrook, MD 20706
>
> (301) 621-9336
>
> Product Name: MAGIC
> Price: $549.00 ($399.00 without camera)
> Availability: immediate
>
> Demonstration Disk: $9.95
>
> Description: This is a complete system as delivered and connects to
> the modem port. The system allows you to capture black and white
> (two tone) images or pseudo-gray scale images. Images can be either
> of two sizes, a small window which allows you to see the software
> control panel (see MacPaint file smokey) or full screen (see MacPaint
> file carolyn). Black and white scans take about 5 seconds, pseudo-gray
> scale scans seem dependent on the number of patterns used but takes
> about 25 seconds.
>
> The camera supplied with this system is a closed circuit TV camera
> similar to what you find in security installations. The lens
> aperture is fixed, you manually adjust the focus. The software
> controls are independent for black and white vs. pseudo-gray scale.
> A horizontal bar extends across the bottom of the screen and represents
> light level. It is black and you locate a single region of white in
> the bar selecting the width of the white region (see MacPaint file
> smokey). In this mode the white region specifies that pixels will
> be on if the light level in that part of the scaned image is in this
> range, otherwise the pixel will be off (black).
>
> The pseudo-gray scale controls are similar. You use patterns read
> in from a MacPaint file (note: the first 512 bytes of a MacPaint
> files hold the paint patterns). You insert as many patterns as you
> wish, independently selecting the width for each. The same pattern
> may be repeated in different places in the control bar, this is
> entirely up to you. A pseudo-gray scale scan builds the image by
> displaying these patterns according to the light level, as you have
> chosen. Note that this means no dithering, if you choose patterns
> with observable structure you risk clarity.
>
> Impressions: I was frankly impressed when I first saw this system. Since
> this was at a computer show it was not possible to get the developers
> to stop taking pictures of attendees and printing the images off on
> an imagewritter long enough to really learn about the image manipulation
> capabilities provided. Since trying the system, I think it is relatively
> easy to use. The chief complaint I have is that I can't save the
> pseudo-gray scale settings. I spent a fair amount of time creating
> patterns and storing them in the specially named MacPaint file so I
> could use them, that worked fine. I then spent a fair amount of time
> experimenting and optimizing the pseudo-gray scale bar settings only
> to find out that I could not save them. I ending up storing an image
> which included the Magic control panel so I would have a record of
> the settings. Of course I can only approximate them in my next session,
> but that only takes a few seconds (grumble, grumble, grumble).
>
> Since this system uses a camera with a standard RS170 output I should
> be able to connect ANY RS170 signal (videodisc, VCR, etc.) I have
> not tried this yet but plan to very soon.
>
> Summary: A good system. The price is not unreasonable. The user
> controls could be improved. In my humble opinion, it is not the
> best system but I still like it.
>
> MacPaint files: There are 3 files.
>
> a) Stop Watch -- produced by the manufacturer
> b) Smokey -- produced by me, black and white. The subject is my
> dog, Smokey. She actually stood still long enough!
> c) Carolyn -- produced by me, pseudo-gray scale. The subject is
> my wife. She actually was still long enough! (Yes,
> she is sleeping on our couch with her right hand
> tucked under her chin. How else could I expect her
> to pose while I tried various settings, etc. etc.)
>
> 3) Servidyne Systems, Inc.
> 1735 Defoor Place, N.W.
> P.O. Box 93846
> Atlanta, Georgia 30377
>
> (404) 255-3629
>
> Product Name: Micro-IMAGER
> Price: $495.00
> Availability: SOON
>
> Demonstration disk: $5.00
>
> Description: This system does not include a camera. Any camera
> with an NTSC output can be used. A color camera can be used but for
> best results a black and white camera is advised. At the top end they
> have used a Ikegama camera with an 800 lines per ?scan? resolution.
> They expect people to use VCR cameras and have thus been developing
> the product using a Panasonic PK557 camera (300 lines per ?scan?
> resolution). The system requires approximately 30 seconds to scan
> and capture the image.
>
> Impression: The disk of sample images were very good, I have not seen
> the demonstration disk they are now selling. They have told me that a
> future MacWorld article will review Mac digitizers (MacWorld told me
> this also, when I offered to write one) and theirs got top billing.
>
> Summary: It looks good but I can't tell till I see it. A price
> reduction would make it more attractive (when I suggested this I
> was not encouraged).
>
> MacPaint files: There are 2 files.
>
> a) 2 level tiger -- produced by the manufacturer, black and white
> two tone
> b) tiger -- produced by the manufacturer, pseudo-gray scale
>
> 4) Koala Technologies
> 3100 Patrick Henry Drive
> Santa Clara, CA 95052-8100
>
> (408) 986-8866
>
> Product Name: MacVision
> Price: $399.95
> Availability: immediate
>
> Description: This systems takes an RS 170 signal. This means that
> you can capture an image directly off a video camera, videodisc player,
> VCR etc. The video frame is digitized into either a small window (for
> review) or a full screen display (512X342 matrix). The scan time is
> approximately 5 seconds for the small window and 30 seconds for the
> full screen. You can print directly or save the scan in a MacPaint
> file. If you save the file it is named screen0 etc. so you can only
> save up to ten images before exiting MacVision to rename the files.
>
> The system hardware is well designed and very easy to use. It
> consists of a single box with a cable for the Mac modem or printer
> port (port selection is a menu item), an RS170 input jack (RCA female),
> a switch to select 75 ohm or "high" impedance, and two control wheels
> marked brightness and contrast.
>
> The software (by Bill Atkinson) is a desk accessory!!! You setup the
> unit with an incoming signal and "focus". This requires you to first
> rotate the brightness control and then the contrast according to a
> clear and easy procedure. Then you select scan window or scan screen.
> A very good dithering algorithm is used and the results speak for
> themselves. (Have you figured out that I REALLY like this unit yet?)
>
> Impression: Wow! I knew it could be this easy, and the price is quite
> reasonable. Incidently, Koala Systems is offering dealers a setup
> which includes a camera for something like $250.00 so lots of dealers
> will probably get it.
>
> Summary: To be honest, there are some faults such as the filenaming
> limitations but I am impressed with this system.
>
> MacPaint files: There are 4 files.
>
> a) Koala -- produced by the manufacturer
> b) Videodisc -- produced by me from a videodisc produced here a couple
> of years ago. The subject is a young lady sitting in
> a dentist's chair.
> c) Keeshond -- produced by me by pointing a video camera at a
> 5X7 inch picture of my dog (if you want to get
> a dog, get a Keeshond -- you can't go wrong)
> d) vision train -- produced by me by pointing a video camera
> at a picture of a train (the same train
> digitized by Thunderscan below)
>
> 5) Thunderware, Inc.
> 19-G Orinda Way
> Orinda, CA 94563
>
> (415) 254-6581
>
> Product Name: ThunderScan
> Price: $229.00
> Availability: immediate
>
> Description: This system is complete as delivered. A sensor is
> provided which is attached to the printhead of a Imagewriter
> printer (you take the ribbon cartridge out). A switch box is
> placed between the Mac and the printer cable, the switch allows
> you to choose whether you want the Imagewriter to function as a
> printer or as a high resolution digitizer. Anything you can
> feed through the printer will be scanned with a resolution of
> 300 pixels per inch in 256 levels of gray. Scanning did take
> a long time, the train took approximately 8 minutes (see MacPaint
> file "train"). The scanner contains its own light source so
> the user does not have to worry about lighting.
>
> The software (developed by Andy Hertzfeld) allows you to scan the
> image once and then adjust the brightness and contrast and redisplay
> the image. You can store the image, or a selected portion of it, as
> a scan file or a MacPaint file. The scan file can be quite large and
> contains the information necessary to allow you to play with the
> brightness and contrast.
>
> I did have some trouble with the software. I was following the
> manual and selecting a portion of the scanned image and applying
> various manipulations. When I saved the image it turned out that
> only the selected area was saved! I won't get caught by that one
> again but I didn't expect it. I have not experimented with the
> ability to scale the image as it is scanned.
>
> Impression: This is quite a system, as soon as I get comfortable
> with the software. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get a
> good balance of brightness and contrast. There is an on-screen
> display but it didn't help as much as I'd hoped. Its clearly a
> powerful system, the question is how skilled do I have to become
> to use it well???
>
> Summary: The jury is still out. The verdict will probably be
> positive but the software could be more helpful to beginners
> such as myself.
>
> MacPaint files: There are 2 files.
>
> a) train -- produced by me using the test picture provided
> with the system.
> b) dog -- produced by me using an 8x10 inch picture of my
> dog
>
>-----
>
>I hope this has been useful. I have no financial association or
>interest in the companies or products mentioned. My opinions are
>strictly my own and do not represent the views of the National
>Library of Medicine. To be honest, I'm so early in the evaluation
>and testing process that these may not represent my views in a few
>weeks.
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From: M. Urlocker <seismo!ihnp4!watmath!water!murlocker>
I beleive there was an article on a number of digitizers available in an
issue of Macworld in the last few months. There are a number of systems
available including Thunderscan which hooks up to your imagewriter and
turns it into an *input* device.
mark
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From: seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois (Paul DuBois)
I've heard of Thunderscan - I think you're right about the price.
$229, I believe.
It's an interesting concept - using the printer as an INPUT device!
An idea that Hertzfeld (inventor of Thunderscan) is supposedly working
on is a software digitization process where information would be printed
with the printer in an encoded format (like the UPC bar codes used on food).
Then you could just photocopy off a bunch of copies, and mail them out.
People would load the paper in their printers, and Thunderscan them into
the machine. Kind of a neat idea...
Yours,
Paul DuBois
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Return-Path: <wanginst!vishniac>
I have digitized photos on a Wang PIC (Professional Imaging Computer) and
converted from the PIC native format to MacPaint format. I then used
MacTerminal to move the converted image to the Mac and SetFile to change
the file type and creator so that MacPaint would open it.
There is one thing I will say that I found very useful.
The MacPaint format involves PackBits for data compression. When building
your own MacPaint-format files, actually using PackBits is an unecessary
annoyance. Instead, just format your data as though PackBits had found
it to be incompressible. This gives you a fixed-size file. The first
time you open and save it from MacPaint, MacPaint will do the compression
for you.
Good luck!
Ephraim Vishniac
[apollo, bbncca, cadmus, decvax, harvard, linus, masscomp]!wanginst!vishniac
vishniac%Wang-Inst@Csnet-Relay
--
Frank
___
Frank Kuiper, CWI, Amsterdam. _][__| |
...{decvax,philabs,seismo,okstate,garfield}!mcvax!frankk <_______|-1
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. O-O-O