networks@dartvax.UUCP (Special Projects Group) (07/24/85)
A few weeks back I posted a request for information concerning AppleTalk to Ethernet gateways. Below are the responses I received. In addition to these, Washington Univeristy in St. Louis and Reed College are also working along the same lines but I have no written information from them as of yet. Thank you to all who responded. If any new information shows up, I'd like to hear about it. I'd also be happy to act as a clearinghouse for the information if people so desire. A quick summary on what we're doing: Waiting on a DEC grant to purchase a few microVaxs and associated materials. We'd either use a microVax as a gateway or purchase something like the Kinetics box and put it on the microVax. The gateway would not be AppleTalk to Ethernet, it would be our own network running a Kiewit Stream Protocol (which looks a lot like TCP) to Ethernet. So if we buy a commercial box, we're going to have to modify the software. My personal preference is to buy the box and modify, but we'll have to see how that goes. David C. Kovar -- Special Projects Group USNET: {linus|decvax|cornell|astrovax}!dartvax!networks ARPA: networks%dartmouth@csnet-relay CSNET: networks@dartmouth US Mail: Kiewit Computation Center Dartmouth College Hanover NH 03755 Phone: (603) 646-3144 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [NOTE: The following was forwarded sometime back. The second message was sent to me this past week.] Date: Fri, 24 May 85 18:13:38 pdt From: unisoft!normac!stephen@Berkeley To: croft@safe.ARPA Subject: Re: North Sea Gate Actual-Sender: Stephen Lewis Sorry for late answer. Re Kinetics' Mac/Ether Bridge. Yes I am working on a single board version. Details follow. Status: Wire wrap prototype about to be built. PC version after bugs fixed (maybe 2 mos). Spec: 68008 CPU (running 8Mhz), Z8530, 82586, sockets for 8 memory chips which can be any of: 8k*8 RAM; 8k*8 up to 32k*8 ROM or 2k*8 EEPROM each. Final config not fixed yet (maybe 40k RAM, 32k ROM, 2k EEPROM) parallel port to bus which can be Multibus or Q-bus. Operates stand-alone with single 5v supply as a gateway or in a card cage as a gateway or in a cage as Applebus interface or in a cage as poor man's Ethernet interface or combinations. DB15 connector for Applebus - 16pin transceiver cable connector for Ethernet (with cable - you need transceiver). All RAM is *static* (no refresh!) and all shared between 82586 and 68008 on a 2Mbyte/s bus. Size: About 6 * 10 * 4 inches under 20 watts - no fans. Code: Memory map will be different and if you want to support the parallel bus it will need some handshaking etc. Boot up and download will all be different but we can supply code for these. We plan to work over our version of 'seagate' code (see billn's mail) but it shouldn't be hard to get the original to work. Avail: Until we have built a couple and seen them work I am reluctant to announce availability. Quantity: How many do you need? Feedback appreciated. I am quite prepared to add anything that fits. As I see it the code can't be frozen for some time yet so I plan on keeping most options open. We will have boot proms and download during testing then swap the chips and burn ROMS later. Stephen Lewis - Kinetics Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From stephen%normac.UUCP@dartvax Sat Jul 20 07:15:57 1985 We are in process of testing three products in which you may be interested: KFP-S a standalone single board "SEAGATE" gateway KFP-Q a Q-bus Appletalk interface (with on-board CPU) KFP-M a Multibus Appletalk interface (with CPU) spec/pricing/delivery info coming via US mail. KFP-S allows configuration of an Ethernet "backbone" system with Appletalk networks attached one per gateway. Software will include an 'rlogin' type Mac program and a gateway configuration program. Unlike Stanford we have incorporated Appletalk directly into the 4.2 Ethernet driver as a new protocol giving Unix full access to Name binding ATP and routing. Also supported is the Lucasfilm external file system ('efs'). Stephen Lewis, Kinetics Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I have been hearing many rumors about SEAGATE and other gateways between various networks and AppleTalk. So a few questions are in order... Background: here at Washington U. in St. Louis, people are trying to start up a project which would involve a gateway between Appletalk and Ethernet (either TCP/IP on UNIX or DECnet on VMS [ of course, we could have DECnet on Ultrix or TCP/IP on VMS, but that seems less common]). Anyway, people here are just getting started on that steep climb up the learning curve for Apple networks... (just ordered the SUMEX tape and started bothering various vendors and people like Bill Croft). Question: who else has been working on gateways between Appletalk and Ethernet (or any net)? We really don't want to re-invent the wheel; if we could add something on top of what someone else has started, that would be beneficial to all (providing we don't screw up). I have heard that CMU, various Stanford groups, and University of British Columbia have been doing things, but I'm not sure as to what those *things* are, and how much work has actually been accomplished. So, if you know what is being done in this area, think how edifying it would be to educate a poor ignorant sould like myself. In short, advice wanted! If I get any responses, and if someone asks for a summary, I will summarize whatever mail I get on this topic. -- ...tp... (tom patterson) "we don't need no stinkin' badges" UUCP: { most major nodes}!{ seismo, ihnp4 }!wucs!tp ARPA: nope BITNET: we're working on that one US SNAIL: Dept. of CS, Box 1045, Washington U., St. Louis MO 63130 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From ihnp4!cbosgd!rice!neuro1!sob Thu Jul 18 23:55:30 1985 From: Stan Barber <ihnp4!rice!neuro1!sob> Subject: Re: AppleTalk to Ethernet hardware/software Organization: Neurophysiology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx Rice University is also embarking on similiar project. Send a note to milazzo@rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From jjb%IRIS@BROWN Mon Jul 22 12:47:42 1985 From: John Bowe <jjb%iris@BROWN> Subject: AppleTalk/Ethernet, etc Dave (and whoever), I just saw your posting in net.micro.mac of 12 July. We are in the process of designing an AppleTalk-Broadband bridge. The goal (the first goal) is to have several AppleTalks connected to a box which is connected to our broadband network at brown (Brunet) and talk through a similar box. Later, we'll want to do the same with PCnet and Ethernet. Eventually, we want to be able to send packets from one type of network to another, but first things first. We have two possible schemes: 1) buy a board, such as Metacomp's MPA 2000, which can come with eight rs422 ports and put it in a box (such as Applitek's NI10) with a broadband modem. This would mean messing with the Applitek box, which I'd prefer not do. 2) <and my preference> is to get Ethernet/broadband devices (Applitek has one on the market, but the throughput is rumored to be not too outstanding - and it's expensive) and have SEAgate-like boxes on the ethernets. Again, that Metacomp board would do. Having only one AppleTalk per SEAgate is not enough. The Ether/broadbands should not simply pass thru all packets to the broadband - only the ones NOT on that local Ethernet. Do you know of any that do this? This way we could put lots of these "SEAgates" on an ethernet along with similar PCnet boxes (other rumors report that several companies are interested in getting one of these out). Also, we could put our normal Ethernet devices (vaxes, Imagens, Suns) on. This way, for example, our CS vaxes could talk with our Engin vaxes thru the broadband net. I like method #2, though I'm not 100% sure why. We'll have full control over the part we have to mess with, rather than understanding and depending some vendor's product. Also, part of the future goals would be already satisfied - the Ethernet bridge. I'd be glad to give you more gorey details if you're interested <and when we decide on them>. What do you thing of our 2 schemes? We want to have a pilot of the AppleTalk version in a dorm sometime this fall. Any suggestions, info, etc. would be most appreciated. Thanks much. John Bowe UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!jjb ARPA: jjb%brown.csnet@csnet-relay CSNET: jjb%brown IRIS Box 1946, Brown University, Providence, RI 02912 401 863-3774 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- David C. Kovar -- Special Projects Group USNET: {linus|decvax|cornell|astrovax}!dartvax!networks ARPA: networks%dartmouth@csnet-relay CSNET: networks@dartmouth US Mail: Kiewit Computation Center Dartmouth College Hanover NH 03755 Phone: (603) 646-3144