networks@dartvax.UUCP (Special Projects Group) (07/24/85)
A few weeks back I posted a request for information concerning AppleTalk
to Ethernet gateways. Below are the responses I received. In addition
to these, Washington Univeristy in St. Louis and Reed College are also
working along the same lines but I have no written information from them
as of yet. Thank you to all who responded. If any new information
shows up, I'd like to hear about it. I'd also be happy to act as a
clearinghouse for the information if people so desire.
A quick summary on what we're doing:
Waiting on a DEC grant to purchase a few microVaxs and associated
materials. We'd either use a microVax as a gateway or purchase something
like the Kinetics box and put it on the microVax.
The gateway would not be AppleTalk to Ethernet, it would be our own
network running a Kiewit Stream Protocol (which looks a lot like TCP)
to Ethernet. So if we buy a commercial box, we're going to have to
modify the software. My personal preference is to buy the box and
modify, but we'll have to see how that goes.
David C. Kovar -- Special Projects Group
USNET: {linus|decvax|cornell|astrovax}!dartvax!networks
ARPA: networks%dartmouth@csnet-relay
CSNET: networks@dartmouth
US Mail: Kiewit Computation Center
Dartmouth College
Hanover NH
03755
Phone: (603) 646-3144
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[NOTE: The following was forwarded sometime back. The second message
was sent to me this past week.]
Date: Fri, 24 May 85 18:13:38 pdt
From: unisoft!normac!stephen@Berkeley
To: croft@safe.ARPA
Subject: Re: North Sea Gate
Actual-Sender: Stephen Lewis
Sorry for late answer. Re Kinetics' Mac/Ether Bridge.
Yes I am working on a single board version. Details follow.
Status: Wire wrap prototype about to be built. PC version after bugs
fixed (maybe 2 mos).
Spec: 68008 CPU (running 8Mhz), Z8530, 82586, sockets for 8 memory
chips which can be any of:
8k*8 RAM; 8k*8 up to 32k*8 ROM or 2k*8 EEPROM each.
Final config not fixed yet (maybe 40k RAM, 32k ROM, 2k EEPROM)
parallel port to bus which can be Multibus or Q-bus.
Operates stand-alone with single 5v supply as a gateway or
in a card cage as a gateway or in a cage as Applebus interface
or in a cage as poor man's Ethernet interface or combinations.
DB15 connector for Applebus - 16pin transceiver cable
connector for Ethernet (with cable - you need transceiver).
All RAM is *static* (no refresh!) and all shared between
82586 and 68008 on a 2Mbyte/s bus.
Size: About 6 * 10 * 4 inches under 20 watts - no fans.
Code: Memory map will be different and if you want to support the
parallel bus it will need some handshaking etc. Boot up and
download will all be different but we can supply code for these.
We plan to work over our version of 'seagate' code (see billn's mail)
but it shouldn't be hard to get the original to work.
Avail: Until we have built a couple and seen them work I am reluctant to
announce availability.
Quantity: How many do you need?
Feedback appreciated. I am quite prepared to add anything that fits.
As I see it the code can't be frozen for some time yet so I plan on
keeping most options open. We will have boot proms and download during
testing then swap the chips and burn ROMS later.
Stephen Lewis - Kinetics Inc.
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From stephen%normac.UUCP@dartvax Sat Jul 20 07:15:57 1985
We are in process of testing three products in which you may
be interested:
KFP-S a standalone single board "SEAGATE" gateway
KFP-Q a Q-bus Appletalk interface (with on-board CPU)
KFP-M a Multibus Appletalk interface (with CPU)
spec/pricing/delivery info coming via US mail. KFP-S allows
configuration of an Ethernet "backbone" system with Appletalk
networks attached one per gateway.
Software will include an 'rlogin' type Mac program and a gateway
configuration program. Unlike Stanford we have incorporated
Appletalk directly into the 4.2 Ethernet driver as a new protocol
giving Unix full access to Name binding ATP and routing. Also
supported is the Lucasfilm external file system ('efs').
Stephen Lewis, Kinetics Inc.
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I have been hearing many rumors about SEAGATE and other gateways
between various networks and AppleTalk. So a few questions are in order...
Background: here at Washington U. in St. Louis, people are trying
to start up a project which would involve a gateway between Appletalk
and Ethernet (either TCP/IP on UNIX or DECnet on VMS [ of course, we
could have DECnet on Ultrix or TCP/IP on VMS, but that seems less common]).
Anyway, people here are just getting started on that steep climb up
the learning curve for Apple networks... (just ordered the SUMEX tape
and started bothering various vendors and people like Bill Croft).
Question: who else has been working on gateways between Appletalk and
Ethernet (or any net)? We really don't want to re-invent the wheel; if
we could add something on top of what someone else has started, that
would be beneficial to all (providing we don't screw up).
I have heard that CMU, various Stanford groups, and University of
British Columbia have been doing things, but I'm not sure as to what those
*things* are, and how much work has actually been accomplished. So, if
you know what is being done in this area, think how edifying it would
be to educate a poor ignorant sould like myself.
In short, advice wanted!
If I get any responses, and if someone asks for a summary, I will
summarize whatever mail I get on this topic.
--
...tp... (tom patterson)
"we don't need no stinkin' badges"
UUCP: { most major nodes}!{ seismo, ihnp4 }!wucs!tp
ARPA: nope
BITNET: we're working on that one
US SNAIL: Dept. of CS, Box 1045, Washington U., St. Louis MO 63130
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From ihnp4!cbosgd!rice!neuro1!sob Thu Jul 18 23:55:30 1985
From: Stan Barber <ihnp4!rice!neuro1!sob>
Subject: Re: AppleTalk to Ethernet hardware/software
Organization: Neurophysiology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Rice University is also embarking on similiar project.
Send a note to milazzo@rice
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From jjb%IRIS@BROWN Mon Jul 22 12:47:42 1985
From: John Bowe <jjb%iris@BROWN>
Subject: AppleTalk/Ethernet, etc
Dave (and whoever),
I just saw your posting in net.micro.mac of 12 July.
We are in the process of designing an AppleTalk-Broadband bridge. The
goal (the first goal) is to have several AppleTalks connected to a box
which is connected to our broadband network at brown (Brunet) and talk
through a similar box. Later, we'll want to do the same with PCnet and
Ethernet. Eventually, we want to be able to send packets from one type
of network to another, but first things first.
We have two possible schemes:
1) buy a board, such as Metacomp's MPA 2000, which can come with
eight rs422 ports and put it in a box (such as Applitek's NI10)
with a broadband modem. This would mean messing with the Applitek
box, which I'd prefer not do.
2) <and my preference> is to get Ethernet/broadband devices (Applitek
has one on the market, but the throughput is rumored to be not too
outstanding - and it's expensive) and have SEAgate-like boxes on the
ethernets. Again, that Metacomp board would do. Having only one
AppleTalk per SEAgate is not enough. The Ether/broadbands should not
simply pass thru all packets to the broadband - only the ones NOT on
that local Ethernet. Do you know of any that do this? This way we
could put lots of these "SEAgates" on an ethernet along with similar
PCnet boxes (other rumors report that several companies are interested
in getting one of these out). Also, we could put our normal Ethernet
devices (vaxes, Imagens, Suns) on. This way, for example, our CS
vaxes could talk with our Engin vaxes thru the broadband net.
I like method #2, though I'm not 100% sure why. We'll have full control
over the part we have to mess with, rather than understanding and
depending some vendor's product. Also, part of the future goals would
be already satisfied - the Ethernet bridge.
I'd be glad to give you more gorey details if you're interested <and when
we decide on them>. What do you thing of our 2 schemes? We want to have a
pilot of the AppleTalk version in a dorm sometime this fall. Any suggestions,
info, etc. would be most appreciated. Thanks much.
John Bowe UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!jjb
ARPA: jjb%brown.csnet@csnet-relay
CSNET: jjb%brown
IRIS Box 1946, Brown University, Providence, RI 02912 401 863-3774
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--
David C. Kovar -- Special Projects Group
USNET: {linus|decvax|cornell|astrovax}!dartvax!networks
ARPA: networks%dartmouth@csnet-relay
CSNET: networks@dartmouth
US Mail: Kiewit Computation Center
Dartmouth College
Hanover NH
03755
Phone: (603) 646-3144