[net.micro.mac] C Compiler Survey & DeSmet Query

hamachi@ucbkim (Gordon Hamachi) (08/29/85)

A quick survey of Macintosh C compiler prices in MacWorld Ads shows:

    Consulair C			:  $620 (425+195 for the Apple MDS)
    Manx C-c (commercial system):  $499 (everything, list price)
    Consulair C			:  $449 (discount mail order, with MDS.  fp?)
    Manx C-c (commercial system):  $360 (discount mail order)
    Megamax C			:  $300 (list)
    Manx C-d (developer system)	:  $299 (without vi, make, diff, grep, updates)
    Hippo C (level 2)		:  $239 (discount mail order)
    Softworks C			:  $237 (discount mail order)
    Manx C-p (personal system)	:  $199 (non-commercial license)
    Megamax C			:  $180 (discount mail order)
    DeSmet C			:  $150 (list)
    Hippo C (level 1)		:  $ 89 (discount mail order)

Here are my somewhat biased opinions, in no particular order:

    Softworks C:
	A slow and clumsy system.  I saw it only at the Mac Expo.  The
	compiler has some strange quirks, for example, you must have at
	least one global variable, and it must be initialized.  Much of the
	clumsiness of the system is that a working system with even a small
	program won't fit on 2 disk drives.  Don't buy it unless you have a
	big hard disk or two floppies plus a ram disk.

    Manx C:
	This is a very high quality system, especially for those who like the
	Unix shell, vi, ls, etc.  I was prepared to dislike it since it is not
	Mac-like, but it is fine, especially if you already know about
	environment variables, paths, etc.  Used it extensively.  Only 1 minor
	bug detected in the compiler, but some of the documentation had errors.

	Tons of documentation in an IBM PC-style binder.  Possibly too much
	documentation.  I found it hard to find what I wanted.  Copy protected,
	but you only have to insert the master disk once when you boot
	the system (hey, no problem, it never bothered me).  The system is
	fast and produces fast, compact code.

    Hippo C:
	Only saw it at the Mac Expo.  Slow.  Unsuitable for developement.
	I'm annoyed at Hippo C because they promised me an evaluation copy,
	didn't send one, and never replied to my mail.

    Megamax C:
	Used it extensively.  They didn't send me an evaluation copy, but
	they never promised to, and I can respect that.  I used a friend's
	copy instead.  Good quality compiler.  Fast and easy to use, but
	had an annoying number of bugs.  Many of them were fixed in release
	v2.0, more in the latest release, v2.1.  Includes a batch facility
	as well as a Mac-like environment with menus, dialog boxes, etc.
	The people at Megamax were quite courteous and helpful.  Good
	documentation, including hard copy of header files and system library
	definitions.  Manual includes a decent index!

    Consulair C:
	Saw it only at the Mac Expo.  Seems okay.  Rumored to be relatively
	bug-free.  Certainly the most expensive C compiler around, since you
	have to buy the MDS developement system assembler from Apple to
	use the compiler, an additional $195 list!
	
	They annoyed me by first promising me an evaluation copy, but then
	refusing to send one, citing that it is NOT copy protected (the
	implication being that I might rip them off).  Instead, they told me
	that they offer a full money back guarantee if care to buy one and
	am dissatisfied.

    DeSmet C:
	Have never seen it.  Would somebody who has the DeSmet C compiler for
	the Macintosh please report on it?  Does it support the Unix version
	7 extensions?  Is it bug-free?

	I understand it is a port of the DeSmet C compiler for the IBM PC.
	The documentation for the PC version is completely underwhelming.
	On the other hand, what I saw contained far fewer than the 360 pages
	that DeSmet's advertisement claims for the Macintosh version, so maybe
	the Mac version is better.

	Incidentally, Byte magazine's August 1983 comparison of C compilers
	had this to say about the DeSmet compiler for the PC:

	    "usually fastest in compilation and linkage times, regularly
	     produced tight code and small incremental program size, and
	     always ranked at the top in terms of execution speed."


My current thinking is to buy the one with the best debugger.  Rumors say
that DeSmet and Megamax may soon come out with symbolic debuggers.

chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (08/30/85)

In article <8508290754.AA29775@ucbkim.ARPA> hamachi@ucbkim (Gordon Hamachi) writes:
>
>    Consulair C:
>	Saw it only at the Mac Expo.  Seems okay.  Rumored to be relatively
>	bug-free.  Certainly the most expensive C compiler around, since you
>	have to buy the MDS developement system assembler from Apple to
>	use the compiler, an additional $195 list!

One thing that consulair has going for it is the compatibility with MDS and
the associated benefits -- apple ships most of its stuff (include files,
object code, and other low level things in the software supplements) either
in MDS format, or in the lisa pascal environment which will either work
directly or with little modification. Because none of the other Compilers
do this, if you're going to do native development on the Mac and plan on
using the stuff (Macintalk is a good example) that Apple puts together, MDS
and macC are a good shot. It is also a very good and stable compiler, with
a good toolbox support package...
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA {decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui

Son, you're mixing ponderables again

dad@mit-vax.UUCP (David Duff) (08/30/85)

The poster of that C compiler survey deserves thanks for that
comprehensive survey he posted.  I am sure that this will be useful for
people who are shopping for compilers.

One other point which may prove helpful to many people on the net:

**Don't forget to look ask for an educational discount!!!**

I bought a Manx compiler (and don't regret it) and saved over $100 by
asking for their educational discount.  I know that Megamax also offers
one.  Usually, all that is required is that you send your order on
school stationary or send a copy of your school to confirm your affiliation.