tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (08/27/85)
Here's a subjective user interface question. I'm developing an application (TFTP) that transfers files across the Appletalk network. If you're sending a file from the Mac, you are queried via the Standard File Package as to which file you want to send. I was backing up some source files onto a VAX by using TFTP (over the Seagate router), and it became obvious that there should be some way you can select a group of files to be sent one after the other. The Standard File Package does not explicitly support this; you can only select one file. What is the best way of specifying a group of files? The Megamax C linker does it fairly well, with one window onto the disk directory and another which accumulates files you've selected. But this would be a fairly large pain to implement, I think. It would be better if some solution using the Standard File Package could be implemented. Additional dialog items can be added to the get file dialog with relative ease, so this would seem like the best way to go. One way to do this would be to have two radio buttons at the bottom, one marked "Last File" and one marked "Continue". The initial setting would be "Last File"; if the user clicked "Continue", then after selecting a file, the dialog would come up again to get another file, repeating until "Last File" was set. The problem with this is that no list of which files you've selected is shown. Any suggestions for any easy way to show a list of currently selected files would be appreciated. Another problem is that this is really not the clearest way in the world to do this. Any other suggestions using the Standard File Package would be appreciated. -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University, Networking ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!"
gwe@cbdkc1.UUCP ( George Erhart ) (08/28/85)
In article <514@cmu-cs-k.ARPA> tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) writes: >Standard File Package could be implemented. Additional dialog items can be >added to the get file dialog with relative ease, so this would seem like the >best way to go. One way to do this would be to have two radio buttons at >the bottom, one marked "Last File" and one marked "Continue". The initial >setting would be "Last File"; if the user clicked "Continue", then after >selecting a file, the dialog would come up again to get another file, >repeating until "Last File" was set. The Da/Font movers (Apple & PD) have this feature implemented. They allow you to command click (clover key + mouse button) to accumulate file selections. This is also implemented for the decktop selection of icons. I, too, vote for some form of multiple selection in the Standard File Package. I don't think that radio buttons would be very convenient, I prefer the route taken by the Da/Font movers. -- George Erhart at AT&T Bell Laboratories Columbus, Ohio 614-860-4021 {ihnp4,cbosgd}!cbdkc1!gwe
dennisg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Dennis E. Griesser) (08/30/85)
In article <514@cmu-cs-k.ARPA> tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) writes: >should be some way you can select a group of files to be sent one after the >other. The Standard File Package does not explicitly support this; you can >only select one file. One the same subject, how can an application tell what files reside on a disk? Even CP/M-80 allowed you to open with "ambigous file references" (wildcards), but it seems that Mac programmers must read the disk directory. Is there a better way to find out what's on a disk? Will anyone post a sample source program that does this?
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (08/30/85)
I don't know whether the Standard File Package supports this, but it should,
and I have several times been annoyed that particular applications don't:
The "Macintosh way" of making several selections is "Shift-Click". Why not
keep selecting from the SFP file menu using the mouse with the shift key
down? You could see the selected items because they remain highlighted
(scrolling should not interfere, as it doesn't when you do this in the
Finder). It should also be possible to change disks or drives without
losing the selections (volume name is part of the file name).
To end the selection, one could mouse "Save" or whatever the action button
says, or type a <return>.
I don't like the idea of "continue" and "last file" buttons. Too much
mousing around. If you just want to do something with a contiguous (in the
listing) set of files, you should be able to sweep across the list with the
mouse, while holding the shift key.
--
Martin Taylor
{allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt
{uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmtjww@sdcsvax.UUCP (Joel West) (09/01/85)
> The Da/Font movers (Apple & PD) have this feature implemented. They allow you > to command click (clover key + mouse button) to accumulate file selections. I agree with everything said, except that I hope "Shift" click was actually meant. To quote from my 2/84 copy of "Macintosh" "Shift-click A technique that allows you to extend a selection by holding down the Shift key while you make an additional selection." Also, to implement "wild-cards", dragging should also be supported. If you want to FTP the whole floppy, scroll to the top and drag all the way to the bottom. Joel West CACI, Inc. - Federal (c/o UC San Diego) {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!jww jww@SDCSVAX.ARPA
guido@boring.UUCP (09/01/85)
In article <2298@sdcrdcf.UUCP> dennisg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Dennis Griesser) writes: >[...] how can an application tell what files reside on a disk? >Even CP/M-80 allowed you to open with "ambigous file references" (wildcards), >but it seems that Mac programmers must read the disk directory. > >Is there a better way to find out what's on a disk? > >Will anyone post a sample source program that does this? Yes, you must read the disk directory, but you don't have to do it all yourself. There are quite powerful toolbox calls to easily get at all files on the disk without you having to know a bit about disk structure. I have posted some sample code that I ripped from my Lisa Hard Disk Backup Utility (soon to be posted!) to net.sources.mac. -- Guido van Rossum, CWI, Amsterdam (guido@mcvax.UUCP)
tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (09/03/85)
Thanks to the many people who responded by mail and on the network to my query concerning the best way to support multiple file selection. The consensus, with which I now agree, is that the Font/DA Mover's approach is the best. For those of you who, like me, have not used this tool, it has a window (actually a UserItem) like the standard file package's window onto the files available, with the scroll bar (another UserItem) to the right. In the Font/DA Mover, the window shows the fonts or desk accessories, not the files. Multiple fonts or desk accessories can be selected by dragging within the window, and by shift-clicking to extend the selection. I have some questions as to how many of the naive users the Mac is aimed for know about shift-clicking -- I do, but I read the programmer's documentation, so.... -- but this definitely seems superior to accumulating selected files into a separate window like the MegaMax C linker does. So that is one-half the question solved. The second part is implementation, and no one gave me help with this. I believe the Font/DA Mover probably used a modified version of the code for the UserItems from the Standard File Package, but the sources are not available outside Apple, so that's no help to me. I do not want to (more importantly, my supervisor would not want me to) spend a whole week implementing a minor feature of TFTP, and the issue doesn't intrigue me enough to do it as a hobby project. Any suggestions on the implementation would be greatly appreciated. I agree that Apple should extend the Standard File Package to support multiple selection, but that does me little good in the here and now. -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University, Networking ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!"
lewis@axiom.UUCP (Lewis Gordon Pringle Jr.) (09/04/85)
I have seen this somewhere before:
Hold down the SHIFT Key, and either trag the mouse, or click it on
several files, in the SF DBox. If you click on a black filename, it should
turn white, and if you click on a white one, it should turn black. Dragging,
should select all files in the range dragged over.
Again, I believe that I have seen this behavior somewhere before,
perhaps this is the way it is currently. At any rate, this would be
a reasonable approach.
Merry Christmas,
Lewis.
--
----------
The facts expressed herein are subject to change without notice ...
USNAIL: Don't bother ... I don't read that kind of mail.
UUCP: {humming,linus,harvard,security}!lewis@axiom.UUCPccrms@ucdavis.UUCP (Michael Shulman) (09/13/85)
> Here's a subjective user interface question.... > The Standard File Package does not explicitly support this; you can > only select one file. > > What is the best way of specifying a group of files? > > Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University, Networking > ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim > CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!" I think that the best way to specify a group of files is the way that the finder does it: Shift-Click to select multiple files. This way, the files that you have selected would show up in an inverse bar, and you could easily see which files have been selected. -- Michael Shulman Microcomputer Consultant University of Calif, Davis ... ucbvax!ucdavis!deneb!ccrms (916)752-1667 8-12, 1-5 Pacific Time {Disclaimer: the opinions expressed here are mine alone, and may or may not represent those of my employer or the price of tea in China.}