[net.micro.mac] 1.5 Meg Upgrade from MacMemory

dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) (10/08/85)

	Until yesterday I intended to upgrade my Mac to 2 Meg with a Levco
kit. I could get a kit for about $450 from a local dealer. The memory
chips would cost about $100 for a total investment of $550.
	Now I think I have a better deal. The Max(TM) from MacMemory, Inc.
is a 1.5 Meg upgrade (add 1 Meg on a daughter board to your 512K). It has
several advantages over the Levco upgrade. First, it draws 1.3 watts
instead of Levco's 3 watts. While I know almost nothing about hardware,
knowledgeable friends tell me that when it comes to power consumption,
less is more. In particular, with this small power draw you don't
have to worry about whether your power supply will work (Levco
maintains a list of power supplies which won't handle its
upgrade). Also you don't need a fan. Second, the upgrade was
designed to work with the new megabit chips. It uses 18 pin
sockets instead of 16 pin and has additional address decoding.
When the megabit chips are available at reasonable prices (say in
a year) you will be able to replace the 256K chips with megabit chips
and have a 4 Meg Mac (actually 4.5 Meg but the Mac will only address
4 Meg). Third, if you are running a ramdisk in the upper 1 Meg of
memory it will not be destroyed by a reset. This means you won't have
to reload the ramdisk if you have to reset on a runaway program
(assuming the program doesn't write all over the ramdisk).
	There is one disadvantage also. Unlike Levco upgrades, The Max
does not have its own ROM. So screen memory sits at the top of 512K.
This means that you can use the extra memory for a 1 Meg RamDisk while
programs have 512K to execute in. While this is not as desireable as
the Levco solution, which relocates screen memory to the top of
physical memory, MacMemory says the new Apple ROMs will do this.
So when they come out, all 1.5 Megs will be continuous.
MacMemory does provide a ramdisk program that gives you an option
of using 512K for applications and 1 Meg for ramdisk or vice versa. So
if you want to run Switcher with 6 or 8 programs you can.
	But here is the clincher. Look at these prices for the kit:
	
			Quantity		Price
			   1			 $525
			  2-4			$367.50
		 	   5+			$341.25
		
The Max is more than $200 cheaper than Levco and gives you a path
to more memory if you need it.
	Does anyone have any experience with The Max upgrade? Does anyone
see anything wrong with the way they have designed it? Unless I hear
about something I missed, I'm taking my Mac to The Max.
	If anyone else is interested, here's where you can get more
information:
				MacMemory, Inc.
				473 Macara Avenue
				Sunnyvale, CA 94086
				(415) 964-4176


David Fay
ihnp4!ihexp!dafa
-- 
--------------------
David Fay
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL 60566
ihnp4!ihexp!dafa

sjl@amdahl.UUCP (Steve Langdon) (10/09/85)

In <501@ihwpt.UUCP> David Fay (ihnp4!ihexp!dafa) writes:
> 
> 	Until yesterday I intended to upgrade my Mac to 2 Meg with a Levco
> kit. I could get a kit for about $450 from a local dealer. The memory
> chips would cost about $100 for a total investment of $550.
> ...
> 	There is one disadvantage also. Unlike Levco upgrades, The Max
> does not have its own ROM. So screen memory sits at the top of 512K.
> This means that you can use the extra memory for a 1 Meg RamDisk while
> programs have 512K to execute in. While this is not as desireable as
> the Levco solution, which relocates screen memory to the top of
> physical memory, MacMemory says the new Apple ROMs will do this.
> So when they come out, all 1.5 Megs will be continuous.
> ...
> 	But here is the clincher. Look at these prices for the kit:
> 	
> 			Quantity		Price
> 			   1			 $525
> 			  2-4			$367.50
> 		 	   5+			$341.25
> 		
> The Max is more than $200 cheaper than Levco and gives you a path
> to more memory if you need it.
> ...

I have had the Levco 2 Meg upgrade for over two months and I feel that
memory > 512K makes a significant improvement to the Mac.  I am happy
to see alternative sources of this type of upgrade.  However, there are
a couple of items in the original article that puzzle me.

The more important item is the statement that the new Apple ROMs will
relocate the screen buffer to the top of the 1.5 Meg address space.
As address decode is a hardware, rather than software, function I would
want a full and convincing explanation of this claim before I purchased
the MacMemory upgrade.

The second item that did not seem quite right was the claim of a $200
saving.  From the costs quoted this seemed to be true only if you bought
more than 1 kit.  Unless you own more than one Mac this seems rather
impractical.  If you have several Macs, you should also check Levco's
quantity prices to determine what the real saving is.
-- 
Stephen J. Langdon                  ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!sjl

[ The article above is not an official statement from any organization
  in the known universe. ]

dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) (10/10/85)

> I have had the Levco 2 Meg upgrade for over two months and I feel that
> memory > 512K makes a significant improvement to the Mac.  I am happy
> to see alternative sources of this type of upgrade.  However, there are
> a couple of items in the original article that puzzle me.
> 
> The more important item is the statement that the new Apple ROMs will
> relocate the screen buffer to the top of the 1.5 Meg address space.
> As address decode is a hardware, rather than software, function I would
> want a full and convincing explanation of this claim before I purchased
> the MacMemory upgrade.
> 
> The second item that did not seem quite right was the claim of a $200
> saving.  From the costs quoted this seemed to be true only if you bought
> more than 1 kit.  Unless you own more than one Mac this seems rather
> impractical.  If you have several Macs, you should also check Levco's
> quantity prices to determine what the real saving is.
> -- 
> Stephen J. Langdon                  ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!sjl

	It is my understanding that the location of screen memory is
determined by a ScreenBase pointer that is placed in low memory.
I'm not sure how it gets there, but I would guess that there is a ROM
routine that figures out on boot up whether you have a 128K or 512K and
then puts the appropriate value in the pointer location. I don't see
why the Apple ROM couldn't figure out that you have 1 Meg, 2 Meg
or whatever and calculate where screen memory should be. Obviously Levco
does something like this with its ROM.
	The quantity prices apply to a single order. So if you want the lower
prices, find someone else that wants to place an order at the same
time.
-- 
--------------------
David Fay
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL 60566
ihnp4!ihexp!dafa

tdn@spice.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA (Thomas Newton) (10/14/85)

> 	It is my understanding that the location of screen memory is
> determined by a ScreenBase pointer that is placed in low memory.
> I'm not sure how it gets there, but I would guess that there is a ROM
> routine that figures out on boot up whether you have a 128K or 512K and
> then puts the appropriate value in the pointer location. I don't see
> why the Apple ROM couldn't figure out that you have 1 Meg, 2 Meg
> or whatever and calculate where screen memory should be. Obviously Levco
> does something like this with its ROM.

The ScreenBase pointer does not determine the location of screen memory;
instead, the screen locations supported by the hardware determine ScreenBase.
It's important that the two correspond.   I think that the current Apple ROMs
assume that you have either a 128K Mac or a 512K Mac and set ScreenBase for
one of these two configurations.

In one of the MAUG conferences, Andy Hertzfield said that it was important
for people upgrading to more than 512K of memory to get upgrades that placed
the screen at the top of memory.  Currently, locating screen memory at the
top of a >512K Mac requires patching the ROMs to set ScreenBase correctly.
The new Apple ROMs should set ScreenBase correctly (= pointing to the top
of memory) for Macs with more than 512K of memory.  But the new ROMs won't
help you (and in fact will hurt you) if you have a >512K upgrade that leaves
the screen at the top of the first 512K of memory.

I called MassTech about their upgrades, and it sounds like they're doing
things right (the extra memory is contiguous with the standard memory, the
screen is located at the top of the address space, and the board contains
patches to the current ROM to let it know about the extra memory).  From the
little I've heard, it sounds like Levco is using a similar technique.  But I
have seen some ads for >512K upgrades that I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot
pole.  A few questions to ask:

    (1) Is the extra memory contiguous with the Mac's built-in memory?
        (the answer to this one should be YES; if the answer is NO, then
	 you'll only be able to use the extra memory as a ramdisk)
	 
    (2) Is the screen relocated to the top of memory?
        (the answer to this one should be YES; according to Hertzfield,
         this is necessary for compatability with the new ROMs)

    (3) Are the current ROMs patched to know about the extra memory?
        (the answer to this one should be YES)

    (4) Does the upgrade require permanent modifications to the Mac?  If so,
        is it possible to buy service on a modified Mac?  (One of the places
        I called modifies the Mac permanently, but will only do service work
        on their own board.  Since regular Apple dealers won't take modified
        digital boards as trade-ins, you'd be in real trouble if you got one
	of their upgrades and your Mac's digital board died.)

    (5) What is done about heat and/or power supply problems?  (MassTech
        installs a fan with all >512K upgrades and installs a modification
	to the power supply with 2MB upgrades on older Macs; I think that
        Levco also installs a fan and possibly a power supply mod).
	
                                        -- Thomas Newton
                                           Thomas.Newton@spice.cs.cmu.edu

vishniac@wanginst.UUCP (Ephraim Vishniac) (10/15/85)

> > ...  However, there are
> > a couple of items in the original article that puzzle me.
> > 
> > The more important item is the statement that the new Apple ROMs will
> > relocate the screen buffer to the top of the 1.5 Meg address space.
> > As address decode is a hardware, rather than software, function I would
> > want a full and convincing explanation of this claim before I purchased
> > the MacMemory upgrade.
> 
> 	It is my understanding that the location of screen memory is
> determined by a ScreenBase pointer that is placed in low memory.
> I'm not sure how it gets there, but I would guess that there is a ROM
> routine that figures out on boot up whether you have a 128K or 512K and
> then puts the appropriate value in the pointer location. I don't see
> why the Apple ROM couldn't figure out that you have 1 Meg, 2 Meg
> or whatever and calculate where screen memory should be. Obviously Levco
> does something like this with its ROM.

I think you're confusing cause and effect.  During startup, the ROMs size
memory.  (The existing roms do it very naively, choosing only between
128K and 512K.)  They then *assume* that the hardware has provided for the
screen to be a fixed distance below the top of memory.  Based on this
*assumption*, they set up the ScreenBase pointer.  If the hardware doesn't
put the screen there, you're up the creek without a paddle...


-- 
Ephraim Vishniac
  [apollo, bbncca, cadmus, decvax, harvard, linus, masscomp]!wanginst!vishniac
  vishniac%Wang-Inst@Csnet-Relay

vishniac@wanginst.UUCP (Ephraim Vishniac) (10/16/85)

> In one of the MAUG conferences, Andy Hertzfield said that it was important
> for people upgrading to more than 512K of memory to get upgrades that placed
> the screen at the top of memory.  Currently, locating screen memory at the
> top of a >512K Mac requires patching the ROMs to set ScreenBase correctly.
> The new Apple ROMs should set ScreenBase correctly (= pointing to the top
> of memory) for Macs with more than 512K of memory.  But the new ROMs won't
> help you (and in fact will hurt you) if you have a >512K upgrade that leaves
> the screen at the top of the first 512K of memory.
> 
> I called MassTech about their upgrades, and it sounds like they're doing
> things right (the extra memory is contiguous with the standard memory, the
> screen is located at the top of the address space, and the board contains
> patches to the current ROM to let it know about the extra memory)...
> 
Another point about the MassTech upgrade.  The ROM patches are contained in
an additional ROM.  The board is designed so that with the patch ROM absent,
the native ROMs are unaffected.  So, when the new Apple ROMs are available,
just install the new ROMs, pluck out the patch ROM, and you're in business.
-- 
Ephraim Vishniac
  [apollo, bbncca, cadmus, decvax, harvard, linus, masscomp]!wanginst!vishniac
  vishniac%Wang-Inst@Csnet-Relay

dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) (10/18/85)

Having spent some time talking to MacMemory and to my hardware friends,
I'd like to clarify several issues that were confused in my previous
submissions on the MacMemory 1.5 Meg upgrade.

First, as several people pointed out, I was most definitely confused
about how screen memory location is determined. In fact, screen memory
location is determined entirely by hardware address decoding. But in
order for programs to know where screen memory is located, a ROM
routine figures out where screen memory is and sets a pointer to it
in the low memory location ScreenBase. It does this by figuring out
how much memory is in the Mac and then assuming that screen memory must be a certain distance below the top
of memory
either 128K or 512K. Therefore, >512K upgrades must patch the
ScreenBase pointer with the correct location if they set 
-- 
--------------------
David Fay
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL 60566
ihnp4!ihexp!dafa

dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) (10/18/85)

After talking further with MacMemory and with my hardware friends,
I would like to clarify several issues discussed in my
previous submissions on the MacMemory 1.5 Megabyte upgrade.

As several people pointed out, I was confused about how screen memory
location is determined. In fact, screen memory location is determined
entirely by hardware address decoding. However, in order that programs
can know about the location of screen memory, the ROM puts a pointer to
it in the low memory location ScreenBase. This is done by figuring out how
much memory the Mac has, and then assuming screen memory starts a
certain distance below the top of memory. Currently, the ROM assumes
that a Mac can have only 128K or 512K. If you increase memory beyond
512K, the current ROM will set ScreenBase incorrectly, so you must
patch it to point to the actual location of the screen memory. This is
done by the ROMs that Levco and others provide with their upgrades.

The new Apple ROMs will not assume that memory can only be 128K or 512K.
Instead, they will figure out how much memory is actually installed
and then set ScreenBase appropriately.

Megabyte upgrades that move screen memory to the top of physical
memory have one disadvantage: they are more expensive.
Extra circuitry must be provided for ROMs to override the
Apple ROMs. Furthermore, when the Apple ROMs come out in a few months,
these non-Apple ROMs will become vestigial.

MacMemory has taken a different approach. They have built in the
address decoding for locating screen memory to the top of 1.5
Megabytes (AND to the top of 4 Meg with 1 Megabit chips) but have
not enabled the relocation in order to avoid the expense of the extra ROMs.
When the new ROMs come out, all you have to do is to cut a trace on
the board. Screen memory will then be at the top of 1.5 Meg and the
Apple ROMs will set ScreenBase correctly. According to the designer
of The Max board at MacMemory, who also happens to be Vice-President
of Sales and Marketing there, they have already tried out the new
Apple ROM with their board and, once the screen memory is relocated,
it works fine.

Because MacMemory saves the expense of new ROMs and because they
have designed the board so as not to require a fan, they can offer
significantly cheaper prices. Unfortunately, many of their employees
are confused about what the prices actually are. On five separate
phone calls, I and friends were given incorrect information about
prices, some of which I reported in earlier articles. The correct
prices for the KIT, according to the Vice-President, are as follows:

	List price: $525
	Club price (quantity order, I believe): List minus 20% (~$420)
	Dealer prices: (quantity 2-4) $367
				   (quantity 5+)  $324

So it looks like you can get one for about $420, which is the lowest
1.5 Megabyte upgrade available.

The additional advantage, which I mentioned in an earlier article,
is that you can upgrade to 4 Megabytes when megabit chips come out
by making a further small modification to the board. This is a
significant advantage in my view.

One further unannounced advantage of MacMemory is that they will
provide a free print spooler to all purchasers of the upgrade
sometime next month.

Finally, they offer a warranty on their board and (for additional
money) a service contract on the whole Mac. They are negotiating
with Apple right now for a deal like GCC worked out. If they can
swing it, a MegaMac upgrade will not void your AppleCare and you will
be able to get your Mac (except the daughter board I assume)
serviced at an Apple dealer.

Now the disadvantages:
	Until the Apple ROMs come out, you will be limited to 1 Megabyte
of continuous memory and 512K of RamDisk (or vice versa).
	The upgrade is designed to be used with SOLDERED mother boards.
So if you have upgraded to 512K yourself and used sockets, as I
have, it's not clear The Max will work. We just received a board in
the mail and will be reporting in the next few weeks whether the board
has enough clearance to fit above a socketed motherboard. MacMemory
also has some concerns about the extra inductance(?) added by the
sockets.
	Finally, the 256K chips on the board are soldered, not socketed.
This means you will have to desolder them to replace them with 1
Megabit chips. This is exactly analogous to a homebrew upgrade from
128K to 512K and should be no problem for someone handy with a
soldering iron.
-- 
--------------------
David Fay
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL 60566
ihnp4!ihexp!dafa

vishniac@wanginst.UUCP (Ephraim Vishniac) (10/23/85)

> After talking further with MacMemory and with my hardware friends,
> I would like to clarify several issues discussed in my
> previous submissions on the MacMemory 1.5 Megabyte upgrade.
...
> The additional advantage, which I mentioned in an earlier article,
> is that you can upgrade to 4 Megabytes when megabit chips come out
> by making a further small modification to the board. This is a
> significant advantage in my view.
> 
> Finally, they offer a warranty on their board and (for additional
> money) a service contract on the whole Mac. They are negotiating
> with Apple right now for a deal like GCC worked out. If they can
> swing it, a MegaMac upgrade will not void your AppleCare and you will
> be able to get your Mac (except the daughter board I assume)
> serviced at an Apple dealer.

Can they swing it?  GCC got the deal they have because the new
Hyperdrive is a clip-on.  The Apple board is left untouched.  I don't
believe Apple will approve any upgrade that involves modifying the
Mac digital board.

> Now the disadvantages:
...
> 	Finally, the 256K chips on the board are soldered, not socketed.
> This means you will have to desolder them to replace them with 1
> Megabit chips. This is exactly analogous to a homebrew upgrade from
> 128K to 512K and should be no problem for someone handy with a
> soldering iron.

But again, I can't believe that Apple (or anyone else) will support this
after the user has plugged in his soldering iron.  The moral: don't
depend on what the maker says he's working on.  Wait until it's "on the
shelf."
-- 
Ephraim Vishniac
  [apollo, bbncca, cadmus, decvax, harvard, linus, masscomp]!wanginst!vishniac
  vishniac%Wang-Inst@Csnet-Relay

espen@well.UUCP (Peter Espen) (10/28/85)

In article <523@ihwpt.UUCP>, dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) writes:
> After talking further with MacMemory and with my hardware friends,
> I would like to clarify several issues discussed in my
> previous submissions on the MacMemory 1.5 Megabyte upgrade.
> 
> As several people pointed out, I was confused about how screen memory
> location is determined. In fact, screen memory location is determined
> entirely by hardware address decoding. However, in order that programs
> can know about the location of screen memory, the ROM puts a pointer to
> it in the low memory location ScreenBase. This is done by figuring out how
> much memory the Mac has, and then assuming screen memory starts a
> certain distance below the top of memory. Currently, the ROM assumes
> that a Mac can have only 128K or 512K. If you increase memory beyond
> 512K, the current ROM will set ScreenBase incorrectly, so you must
> patch it to point to the actual location of the screen memory. This is
> done by the ROMs that Levco and others provide with their upgrades.
>
 
	If the screen memory location is determined entirely by hardware
address decoding, then how can the Apple ROM alter the screen memory
location to point to the top of RAM for a 512K Mac? I did the Dr. Dobbs
128 to 512K upgrade on my Mac and I didn't alter any of the hardware
address decoding for screen memory at all. The only thing that the
upgrade did was add the 256K memory chips and add the address decoding
for address lines A17 and A18 to select Memory address line MA8 when
 needed. My screen memory never-the-less is right up there at 7a700
as it should be. I always assumed that was because the ROM was detecting
that I had more than 128K of memory and so was writing the ScreenBase
pointer as 7a700. I still don't understand why that ScreenBase pointer
can't be made to point to whatever the top of memory is. Perhaps 
someone out there can clear this up for me. Thanks!
		Peter Espen 

 

north@apple.UUCP (Donald N. North) (10/29/85)

In article <240@well.UUCP> espen@well.UUCP (Peter Espen) writes:
>In article <523@ihwpt.UUCP>, dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) writes:
>> After talking further with MacMemory and with my hardware friends,
>> I would like to clarify several issues discussed in my
>> previous submissions on the MacMemory 1.5 Megabyte upgrade.
>> 
>> As several people pointed out, I was confused about how screen memory
>> location is determined. In fact, screen memory location is determined
>> entirely by hardware address decoding. However, in order that programs
>> can know about the location of screen memory, the ROM puts a pointer to
>> it in the low memory location ScreenBase. This is done by figuring out how
>> much memory the Mac has, and then assuming screen memory starts a
>> certain distance below the top of memory. Currently, the ROM assumes
>> that a Mac can have only 128K or 512K. If you increase memory beyond
>> 512K, the current ROM will set ScreenBase incorrectly, so you must
>> patch it to point to the actual location of the screen memory. This is
>> done by the ROMs that Levco and others provide with their upgrades.
>>
> 
>	If the screen memory location is determined entirely by hardware
>address decoding, then how can the Apple ROM alter the screen memory
>location to point to the top of RAM for a 512K Mac? I did the Dr. Dobbs
>128 to 512K upgrade on my Mac and I didn't alter any of the hardware
>address decoding for screen memory at all. The only thing that the
>upgrade did was add the 256K memory chips and add the address decoding
>for address lines A17 and A18 to select Memory address line MA8 when
> needed. My screen memory never-the-less is right up there at 7a700
>as it should be. I always assumed that was because the ROM was detecting
>that I had more than 128K of memory and so was writing the ScreenBase
>pointer as 7a700. I still don't understand why that ScreenBase pointer
>can't be made to point to whatever the top of memory is. Perhaps 
>someone out there can clear this up for me. Thanks!
>		Peter Espen 
>
> 
In the 128K/512K MAC, the RAM address decode logic only looks at the upper
two bits of the address; A<23:22>='00' selects RAM.  The display/sound buffers
only need the low 16 word-address lines A<16:01> multiplexed (because they
occupy less than 64K total).  Hardware pullups keep intermediate address bits
high during display refresh access memory cycles, thus the hardware location
of the display will 'float' automatically to the top of any RAM memory in the
low 4 MByte chunk of address space.  Since memory 'wraps' from only decoding
A<23:22>, a screen address base of $7A700 will handle physical memory sizes
of 128K (screen at $3A700) or 512K (screen at $7A700).  If one were to set
the ROM-generated screenbase at $3FA700, RAM sizes of 128K - 4096K (the limit
imposed by hardware) could be handled transparently to the software.

tk@cvl.UUCP (Tharakesh Siddalingaiah) (10/29/85)

In article <240@well.UUCP> espen@well.UUCP (Peter Espen) writes:
>In article <523@ihwpt.UUCP>, dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) writes:
>> After talking further with MacMemory and with my hardware friends,
>> I would like to clarify several issues discussed in my
>> previous submissions on the MacMemory 1.5 Megabyte upgrade.
>> 
>> As several people pointed out, I was confused about how screen memory
>> location is determined. In fact, screen memory location is determined
>> entirely by hardware address decoding. However, in order that programs
>> can know about the location of screen memory, the ROM puts a pointer to
>> it in the low memory location ScreenBase. This is done by figuring out how
>> much memory the Mac has, and then assuming screen memory starts a
>> certain distance below the top of memory. Currently, the ROM assumes
>> that a Mac can have only 128K or 512K. If you increase memory beyond
>> 512K, the current ROM will set ScreenBase incorrectly, so you must
>> patch it to point to the actual location of the screen memory. This is
>> done by the ROMs that Levco and others provide with their upgrades.
>>
> 
>	If the screen memory location is determined entirely by hardware
>address decoding, then how can the Apple ROM alter the screen memory
>location to point to the top of RAM for a 512K Mac? I did the Dr. Dobbs
>128 to 512K upgrade on my Mac and I didn't alter any of the hardware
>address decoding for screen memory at all. The only thing that the
>upgrade did was add the 256K memory chips and add the address decoding
>for address lines A17 and A18 to select Memory address line MA8 when
> needed. My screen memory never-the-less is right up there at 7a700
>as it should be. I always assumed that was because the ROM was detecting
>that I had more than 128K of memory and so was writing the ScreenBase
>pointer as 7a700. I still don't understand why that ScreenBase pointer
>can't be made to point to whatever the top of memory is. Perhaps 
>someone out there can clear this up for me. Thanks!
>		Peter Espen 
>
> 


The hardware was always look for screen memory starting at location 7A700
but since you orignaly had 128k of memory the 2 MSB wern't being decoded
so it seemed that the screen was at 1A700. I belive the ROM did a similar
sort of thing i.e. put the address 7A700 in the ScreenBase pointer and the
decodeing logic took care of the rest.

-tk
-- 
 Tharakesh Siddalingaiah ---
      University of Maryland Computer Vision Lab,     (301) 454-4526
      ARPA:tk@cvl   CSNET:tk@cvl   UUCP:{seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!cvl!tk

dafa@ihwpt.UUCP (David Fay) (10/29/85)

Thank you Donald North for clarifying how screen memory location is
determined. One small correction - screen memory on the 128K is at
$1A700 not $3A700.

We have now installed our first MacMemory 1.5 Meg upgrade on top of
an Apple 512K board. It was not a difficult job, requiring about the
same level of skill as a 512K upgrade. Three ICs must be de-soldered
on the mother board along with some other minor modifications. Less
work is required on a 128K board which has been upgraded to 512K.
The MacMemory board appears to be of high quality - at least as good
as the Apple board itself. We can not detect any increase in heat
coming out of the vents on top.

The materials that come with the kit state that the upgrade is to be
added to stock Apple boards with soldered (not socketed) RAM.
Apparently this is because MacMemory believes socketed memory is not as
reliable as soldered. Throwing all caution to the wind, our next
upgrade will be on a homebrew 512K upgrade with low profile sockets.
We have already determined that there is plenty of clearance for the
daughter board even with the socketed memory.
-- 
--------------------
David Fay
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL 60566
ihnp4!ihexp!dafa

vishniac@wanginst.UUCP (Ephraim Vishniac) (10/29/85)

> 	If the screen memory location is determined entirely by hardware
> address decoding, then how can the Apple ROM alter the screen memory
> location to point to the top of RAM for a 512K Mac? I did the Dr. Dobbs
> 128 to 512K upgrade on my Mac and I didn't alter any of the hardware
> address decoding for screen memory at all. The only thing that the
> upgrade did was add the 256K memory chips and add the address decoding
> for address lines A17 and A18 to select Memory address line MA8 when
>  needed. My screen memory never-the-less is right up there at 7a700
> as it should be. I always assumed that was because the ROM was detecting
> that I had more than 128K of memory and so was writing the ScreenBase
> pointer as 7a700. I still don't understand why that ScreenBase pointer
> can't be made to point to whatever the top of memory is. Perhaps 
> someone out there can clear this up for me. Thanks!
> 		Peter Espen 

I believe the answer is that the video hardware, even on 128K Macs, 
addresses the screen at the "Fat Mac" location (7A700).  Wraparound
does the rest.

-- 
Ephraim Vishniac
  [apollo, bbncca, cadmus, decvax, harvard, linus, masscomp]!wanginst!vishniac
  vishniac%Wang-Inst@Csnet-Relay