[net.micro.mac] Apple Hard Disk 20 Comments...

harrow@exodus.DEC (Jeff Harrow, NCSE LKG1-3/F16 DTN=226-7445) (12/30/85)

Well, time for my second installment on the joys and 
trepidations of the Apple HD20 hard disk.  

Please note that although there are
many negatives here, they are constructive criticism and are 
intended both to generate discussion here, to hopefully yield
some answers for myself and you other HD20 users, and to let
Apple hear some real-world comments before they freeze the new
ROMs (that's Rumored-Only-Memory).

Let me begin by saying that I *LOVE* having all of my applications
(except those that won't coexist with the HD due to protection
schemes, and I WON'T buy anymore that DON'T work there) available
at one time, as well as the higher disk speeds when the Finder
is not involved, but:

First and foremost, the speed of the FInder (V5.0) is ridiculous.
Now, I say this with some careful consideration as I realize that 
with 13.7 Megabytes in 729 files, it is doing a LOT of work to 
prepare the presentation of the desktop.  HOWEVER, being a human 
user, I find it EXTREMELY difficult to deal with .75 - 2 MINUTE
desktop creation times (and I saw a writeup in a magazine which
has a similar comment!).  The disk times when the FInder is not
involved are subjectively better than with the floppy; I use
the Transport DA whenever feasible, but the Finder NEEDS some
work (Larry of Apple, PLEASE, are you listening?  This will NOT
cut it in a business environment!).

Another point is that the "Available" disk space message shown in the
title bar of a window does NOT agree with either of these disk figures!

Furthermore, when I ended up with about 60 files and 1.5 
megabytes in one folder (which was several layers deep itself),
the system took over 10 MINUTES to attempt to display the desktop
of the file, AND NEVER DID DISPLAY IT CORRECTLY (ie. it was 
jumbled).  I was able to throw out some of the files and it 
finally began to operate correctly again, but I haven't yet 
defined the limits.

Another snafu was a system crash with a 1/2 inch vertical black 
stripe on the desktop after I had opened/closed numerous folders
in a row.

Also, a GetInfo on the Disk indicates 13,736,448 bytes in use,
but adding up the GetInfo data from each of the folders contained
in the next level of the disk only yields 12,782,080 bytes:  What
happened to the missing 1+ Megabyte???

Now, a list of the things that DON'T seem to work with the HD20:

FEDIT V3.05 (apparently only works with Floppies file struc.)
SetPrinter
SetFile
PS Print
Disk Utility
DivJoin (this is a shame since Apple does not provide ANY
        backup utility with the HD20!!!)
EDIT    (29-AUG-84) (from MDS) (will only edit files on the root 
        (Disk).)
EDITOR  (New,from MegaMax) (keeps giving errors on any but the root.)
(These two are RATHER serious; does anyone have a later 
copy?)
                                        
Switcher V4.4   (When trying to start some applications from 
                the Switcher window, it gives an error message saying that 
                it can't find the file you just picked from the SFGetFIle dialog, 
                but only for SOME applications.
                                

rdr@alliant.UUCP (Roger Roles) (12/30/85)

In article <186@decwrl.DEC.COM> harrow@exodus.DEC (Jeff Harrow, NCSE LKG1-3/F16 DTN=226-7445) writes:
>...
>First and foremost, the speed of the FInder (V5.0) is ridiculous.
>Now, I say this with some careful consideration as I realize that 
>with 13.7 Megabytes in 729 files, it is doing a LOT of work to 
>prepare the presentation of the desktop.  HOWEVER, being a human 
>...

	Does the finder have to traverse the entire directory tree at
startup in order to display the desktop? One of the major advantages of
a tree structured directory organization is the distribution of compute
cycles over several small units of information rather than over one
large unit. The finder should only have to look at the top level of the
directory structure (and any open folders) in order to display the
desktop.
	Of course a drawback of this would be that some amount of
overhead would be incurred by opening a folder, but this should be
smaller and more distributed than looking at the entire directory
structure at finder startup time.
	Have you tried finder 5.1xxx (I don't remember what xxx was,
something like b9)? I'm wondering if it has any bug fixes/speed
improvements.
-- 
--
#include <disclaimer.standard>

...!{linus | mit-eddie}!alliant!rdr		Roger D. Roles

david@sagan.UUCP (David Taylor) (12/31/85)

[munch munch munch. . . . burp!]
  
In general I agree with Jeff's comments about the new HD20, which I purchased
in mid-November. Yes, it really does take MINUTES sometimes to settle the 
Desktop view. I assume that this is because regardless of which files are
displayed in open windows, the Finder and System seem to need to know about
all the files that are on the disk. Why is this Larry? If I have 700 files
on the disk but am staring at a single window belonging to the Hard Disk
itself, which shows only my neatly arranged dozen or so folders, which contain
those files, why does the Finder/System need to look at more than those
dozen folders? Please Larry answer this to the net. It would really help me
and a lot of other people if you could briefly compare the MSDOS file and
directory system to the HFS. We all know that Apples is far easier to use.
Understanding what the Mac is doing would really help people tolerate the
waiting.
   
One other thing, (this may be my hardware problem but I doubt it), is there
a bug which causes the cursor to cease responding to mouse movement but
leave Command keys functioning? I have lost count of the number of times,
that I have had to reboot.(A 3 minute plus experience remember!)
  
My own list of non-compatible programs also includes:
          Manx Aztec C v 1.06G (Thanks for removing the protection, Manx!)
          Consulair C v 4.00
          Dollars and Sense v 1.2 (wierd crashes!)
          MDS assembler v 1.00
          Smartcomm II v 4.1A (wonderful program)
          Modula Corp's Modula 2 (first release in 1984)
          Nevins Turbo Charger v 1.00???
          Macintosh Pascal v 1.00?? (first release)
          Mouse Exchange BBS v 3.7??
  
Recently RedRyder v6.2 was replaced by v7.0 which fixed all the HFS related
bugs and added new features. Manx and Consulair are rumored to be hard at work
on HFS compatible releases. People should read the new Tech notes 24 and 44
from Apple about the HFS and Volume sensing.

Finally, don't try to use Copy II HardDisk v4.3 or less to copy protected
files to your shiny new HD20. I tried several different copies and was amazed
to be told copy successful and when I looked for the program there was no sign.
Suddenly I added up my Available and used space and discovered that the copies
had apparently worked but the programs had disappeared taking 1.6 megabytes
with them. Somehow the copying had eaten the space. Since then I have had a
HD18.4 and my dealer (ComputerCraft in San Rafael) and I have had no luck 
with any solution from Apple. Holiday season I guess. Both the dealer and 
Apple were very responsive but could offer no real solution. I suspect the 
fix will appear magically with all the other new stuff.

All in all a sad tale but I am still a major Mac fan and can really recommend
the HD20 despite its faults. I jumped in real early and am effectively a 
beta tester. Maybe I'll wait a little longer next time but I doubt it!

All the above are my own comments and represent only my own opinion. My 
employer is only involved in this as provider of a Usenet link and doubtless
wishes to disassociate itself from these comments.
-- 
david
... David W.Taylor, MicroPro Product Development
{dual,hplabs,glacier,lll-crg}!well!micropro!sagan!david

gcc@ssc-vax.UUCP (Greg C Croasdill) (01/07/86)

> Well, time for my second installment on the joys and 
> trepidations of the Apple HD20 hard disk.  
> 
...
>
> Another point is that the "Available" disk space message shown in the
> title bar of a window does NOT agree with either of these disk figures!
> 
> Furthermore, when I ended up with about 60 files and 1.5 
> megabytes in one folder (which was several layers deep itself),
> the system took over 10 MINUTES to attempt to display the desktop
> of the file, AND NEVER DID DISPLAY IT CORRECTLY (ie. it was 
> jumbled).  I was able to throw out some of the files and it 
> finally began to operate correctly again, but I haven't yet 
> defined the limits.
> 
....
> 
> Also, a GetInfo on the Disk indicates 13,736,448 bytes in use,
> but adding up the GetInfo data from each of the folders contained
> in the next level of the disk only yields 12,782,080 bytes:  What
> happened to the missing 1+ Megabyte???
> 

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MASSAGE ***

I'd like to add to his comments about these problems.
I initalized a disk at home, did some work on it and brought it into
work. ( We have an Mac here with a HD20 on it and Finder 5.0). I noticed
that the amount of disk space on my 400K disk (used + available) only added
up to 391K.  9K is not alot in today's technology, so this did not bother me
too much.  However, when I initialized a new disk, to transfer the data over
to, it came up as only having 120K total, available on the disk.  I had to 
initalize it twice, before it came up with the now familiar 391K.
Apple listen -- *THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING!!!!!*

We forgave you for the 128K Mac.... but this is going too far.

I am not going to rush out and buy a HD20.

					Greg Croasdill
					(uw-beaver|fluke)!ssc-vax!gcc