[net.micro.mac] Of Fonts and Files...

harrow@exodus.DEC (Jeff Harrow, NCSE LKG1-3/F16 DTN=226-7445) (01/18/86)

I've run  into  a  problem, especially before I got a hard disk, of putting 
certain fonts into  a  System  so  that  I  could  use them in a particular 
MacWrite (or Word...) document.    All  went well until I attempted to load 
that document while using another System.

It appears that the fonts are picked positionally within the font menu;  in 
that I mean that if Alice  was the first font in System A, and I used it in 
my document, when I loaded that document under a System which had GENEVA as 
font #1, it would come up in GENEVA.

First of all, is this "positionality" correct?

Well, what to do about it?  I  remembered  that the resources are generally 
searched in the order of Document File, then System File, so I used ResEdit 
to move a copy of a font which was NOT  in  the  current  System  into  the 
DOCUMENT file, expecting that it would then show up in the  FONT  menu when 
THAT DOCUMENT was the current document in MacWrite.

Alas, it didn't show up.

Any ideas/explanations?

Jeff

guest@ccivax.UUCP (What's in a name ?) (01/21/86)

> Well, what to do about it?  I  remembered  that the resources are generally 
> searched in the order of Document File, then System File, so I used ResEdit 
> to move a copy of a font which was NOT  in  the  current  System  into  the 
> DOCUMENT file, expecting that it would then show up in the  FONT  menu when 
> THAT DOCUMENT was the current document in MacWrite.
> 
> Alas, it didn't show up.
> 
> Any ideas/explanations?
> 
> Jeff

Hello Jeff,

Although my personal experience is somewhat limited in this area, I will pass
on what I have "heard" in this area.  First of all, by the way, I don't know 
the answer to your 'positionality' question; however, you raise a broader 
issue:  namely, how to use files on different 'systems' while keeping certain
fonts that are 'non-standard'.  You were definitely on the right track.  If
I understand you, you tried to install the font in the document file itself.
This is not quite right. Try installing the font (or DA) into the application
itself and not the document.  You can use apple's font mover to do this.  I 
believe that if you hold the option key (or command) while 'opening', the font
mover will list ALL files on the selected drive.  Open MacWrite, for instance,
and copy the needed fonts directly into the application.  I have only 'heard'
that this will work.

GOOD LUCK

Sam Mantel -- Roch, NY

bhyde@inmet.UUCP (01/23/86)

It is true that resource files are searched in the order
document, application, system.  But this isn't very useful
if the application has constructed the "font menu" prior to
opening the particular document you are interested in.
	- ben hyde, cambridge.

darin@ut-dillo.UUCP (Darin Adler) (01/26/86)

<

> It is true that resource files are searched in the order
> document, application, system.  But this isn't very useful
> if the application has constructed the "font menu" prior to
> opening the particular document you are interested in.

Also remember that when Inside Macintosh says that resource file are
searched in this order, it is not talking about application.  For example,
many applications have documents which are not resource files, or which
are not kept open for very long if they are resource files.  What this
discussion in IM is really about is that resource files are searched in the
reverse order that they were opened (starting with the last opened, or with
the last UseResFile'd file).  Since the System file is opened by InitResources
(which is usually only called by the ROM and the Finder) and the application
file is opened when the application is Launched, these are usually the last
two to be searched.
-- 
Darin Adler	{gatech,harvard,ihnp4,seismo}!ut-sally!ut-dillo!darin

"Such a mass of motion -- do not know where it goes"	P. Gabriel

harrow@exodus.DEC (Jeff Harrow, NCSE LKG1-3/F16 DTN=226-7445) (01/28/86)

Well, to  summarize  comments  to  my  question  as to if a font, 
installed in a DOCUMENT file, should show up in the Font menu:

Several people  correctly  indicated  that  the  Mac searches for 
resources in the  order  of Application, then System, and that it 
SHOULD work if the  font  were installed in the APPLICATION (note 
this is NOT the DOCUMENT,  which  is  not  searched automatically 
(nor explicitly by MacWrite)).  However, nobody indicated if they 
had TRIED this.

So,  I  did.    I installed an obscure  font  into  the  MacWrite 
application  using  ResEdit.  This font was NOT installed  in  the 
System.

When  I  then brought up MacWrite, the font WAS available.    So, 
we've counted the teeth of the horse...

Thanks for the responses.

Jeff

berry@tolerant.UUCP (David Berry) (01/28/86)

> 
> It is true that resource files are searched in the order
> document, application, system.  But this isn't very useful
> if the application has constructed the "font menu" prior to
> opening the particular document you are interested in.
> 	- ben hyde, cambridge.

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

	You are only guaranteed that the application and system files
will be searched for fonts.  In order to search the document for fonts
the application must do something special (OpenResFile on the document)
which most applications don't do (most of them only open the data fork
of the document.)  I don't know which apps open the resource fork and
which don't but I would guess that as a general rule very few open the
resource fork also and therefore very few will actually find fonts in
the document.
-- 

	David W. Berry
	{ucbvax,pyramid,idsvax,bene,oliveb}!tolerant!berry

	I'm only here for the beer.

berry@tolerant.UUCP (David Berry) (01/30/86)

> Well, to  summarize  comments  to  my  question  as to if a font, 
> installed in a DOCUMENT file, should show up in the Font menu:
> 

	Something I saw last night indicated that MacWrite does indeed
open the resource fork of documents and thus fonts placed in the
document should be usable.  I havn't actually tried this and so I
can't actually verify it.  The article was discussing MacWrite 4.5.


-- 

	David W. Berry
	{ucbvax,pyramid,idsvax,bene,oliveb}!tolerant!berry

	I'm only here for the beer.

bart@reed.UUCP (Bart Massey) (01/30/86)

> Several people  correctly  indicated  that  the  Mac searches for 
> resources in the  order  of Application, then System, and that it 
> SHOULD work if the  font  were installed in the APPLICATION (note 
> this is NOT the DOCUMENT,  which  is  not  searched automatically 
> (nor explicitly by MacWrite)).  However, nobody indicated if they 
> had TRIED this.
>
> Jeff

I don't think this is right yet.  I think the person who is right is the
person who said that files are searched for resources starting with the
most recently opened currently open file, working back through the other
currently open files, then the application, then the system.  The reason
that fonts installed in MacWrite documents don't get used is that
at the time that MacWrite builds its font menu, no files are open, and
it never rebuilds the menu.

Interesting question:  Do fonts in MacWrite documents show up if you
double-click the DOCUMENT, rather than starting MacWrite?  It wouldn't
surprise me much to hear either answer...

							Bart Massey
							..tektronix!reed!bart

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