[net.micro.mac] Power Supply Troubles?

chavez@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Thomas M. Chavez) (04/29/86)

Just today my Mac screen started waving back and forth, sort of rippling from
top to bottom.  I don't think that I am over heating because I have my new
Fanny Mac keeping the temperature down, and the line voltage is right at 120V.
Has anyone else seen this problem?  Is my analog board going to blow?  Should
I buy Apple Care before it does?  (How much is an analog board?)

Any help is much appreciated...

Tom
ucbvax!chavez

gjb@unirot.UUCP (Greg Brail) (05/01/86)

In article <13507@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> chavez@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Thomas M. Chavez) writes:
>Just today my Mac screen started waving back and forth, sort of rippling from
>top to bottom....
>Has anyone else seen this problem?

    I've never seen the problem on the Mac, but it seems to happen on
Apple IIc's with the little Apple monitors. Each row of pixels sort
of does a 'wave' left and then back to the right, one after the
other. I'm not sure about overheating, but I know the problem is
solved temporarily by jiggling the monitor cable at the jack. In
other words, the monitor connection on your Mac may be loose. Good
luck.
		-Greg


-- 
Greg Brail  	(Greg @ The Soup Kitchen)
UUCP : ..{ihnp4,seismo,harvard,ut-sally,allegra}!caip!unirot!gjb
ARPA : unirot!gjb@caip.rutgers.edu
USNAIL : Don't bother.

hal@ecsvax.UUCP (Hal Hunnicutt) (05/02/86)

> Just today my Mac screen started waving back and forth, sort of rippling from
> top to bottom.  I don't think that I am over heating because I have my new
> Fanny Mac keeping the temperature down, and the line voltage is right at 120V.
> Has anyone else seen this problem?  Is my analog board going to blow?  Should
> I buy Apple Care before it does?  (How much is an analog board?)
> 
[]
Some time ago, after blowing 3 power supplies (ouch!), I decided to cool
the sucker off.  I took an ordinary desk fan and set it on top of the
mac blowing down on the power supply vents.  Rather crude, I would admit
but it made the screen do a wild belly dance exactly as you describe.
I suspect its an RF interference, because the waving would decrease the
farther I moved the fan away from the mac.

My eventual solution, by the way, was not to wait for a commercial fan
and pay ~130 bucks for it.  I went down to the local Radio Shack and
bought one of their little 4" general purpose fans.  It's a near perfect
fit between the back of the disk drive and the mac frame.  A velcro
patch on the bottom and a little styrofoam wedged on either side provide
more than adequate security.  All I had to do was connect one wire to
the ground on the frame and the other to the power switch and presto!
An internal fan with instant power-on -- for $15!  It's a little on the
loud side, but it's nothing I couldn't get used to for the price (not
to mention $100 a power supply).  Besides that sucker is cranking out
about 32 cubic feet per minute (twice as much as System Saver Mac), so
you cna rest assured that it never gets the least bit warm.  I've done
two such installations and it takes about 10 minutes.

Hal Hunnicutt    hal@ecsvax.UUCP
> Any help is much appreciated...
> 
> Tom
> ucbvax!chavez


-- 
"And a now my friend, the first a rule, of Italian driving:
                            What'sa behind you, is a not important." -Franco

phil@portal.UUcp (Phil Sih) (05/05/86)

In article <557@unirot.UUCP>, gjb@unirot.UUCP (Greg Brail) writes:
> In article <13507@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> chavez@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Thomas M. Chavez) writes:
> >Just today my Mac screen started waving back and forth, sort of rippling from
> >top to bottom....
> >Has anyone else seen this problem?
> 
>     I've never seen the problem on the Mac, but it seems to happen on
> Apple IIc's with the little Apple monitors. Each row of pixels sort
> solved temporarily by jiggling the monitor cable at the jack. In
> other words, the monitor connection on your Mac may be loose. Good
> luck.
>

I used to work in an office with about 50 or so Macs and two of them had
this same problem and finally died of power supply failure, one with quite
a bit of smoke.  I have another two friends who have had theirs fail in
a similar way, again the problem was with the power supply.  A friend of 
mine who used to work at Apple indicated this symptom usually is an
indicator of impending powersupply failure.  I would be careful.  One of 
my friends said it took months to get his machine repaired after the
unit blew. 


	- Phil    { sun | hoptoad | atari } !portal!phil

wmartin@ut-ngp.UUCP (Wiley Sanders) (05/06/86)

In article <13507@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> chavez@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Thomas M. Chavez) writes:
>Just today my Mac screen started waving back and forth, sort of rippling from
>top to bottom.  I don't think that I am over heating because I have my new
>Fanny Mac keeping the temperature down, and the line voltage is right at 120V.
>Has anyone else seen this problem?  Is my analog board going to blow?  Should
>I buy Apple Care before it does?  (How much is an analog board?)
>
If the "rippling" is a quick, jerky, kind of thing, yes, you are sooner or
later going to need a new analog board. I bought a 128K Mac soon after they
came out. About a year ago, my video display began to spazz out, especially
during the first 15 min after warmup. Eventually it would stabilize. Then,
about two months ago, the problem began to get worse and worse, quickly. One
day I turned the Mac on and there was nothing but a bright vertical line on the
screen, so I got the analog board replaced. I heard a rumor there were a lot
of these problems with the first Macs. My new board has a much brighter dis-  
play; I used to keep the brightness control pretty much full up, I keep
it at about 75% now.
   The moral: Live with the problem as log as you can, but eventually you'll
need a new analog board.
-w

chavez@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Thomas M. Chavez) (05/13/86)

In article <13507@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> you write:
>Just today my Mac screen started waving back and forth, sort of rippling from
>top to bottom.  I don't think that I am over heating because I have my new
>Fanny Mac keeping the temperature down, and the line voltage is right at 120V.
>Has anyone else seen this problem?  Is my analog board going to blow?  Should
>I buy Apple Care before it does?  (How much is an analog board?)
>
>Any help is much appreciated...
>
>Tom
>ucbvax!chavez

Here is a reply that I got:

Tom;
	A few key words in your article tip me off to the probable cause.
(forgive if this is way late I'm behind with net.micro.mac).  The first
tip is NEW <insert your fan name here>.  The second is JUST TODAY.  This
leads me to believe that the wavy lines came with your fanny mac.  Actually
its not just the fanny macs fault although now I know I wont buy one.  They
should have taken care of this problem.  Those wavey lines are most likely
caused from the magnetic fields  generated by the fanny mac fan.  I installed
(hacked)  a muffin fan into mine and it does the same thing.  Some fans are
worse and some are better.   Just try taking the fan off, presto waves go 
away.  Move it around the tube, have some fun.  For ~95.00 I would have expected
them to work around this some how with shielding or different fans (like those
that come with the monster mac, I dont think they cause waving.)

	If it is really bad and anoying I would get my money back and go for
one of those internal "flapper" types  that everyone
is talking about, although they are hard to get.

Hope it helps
dave schuh


-----------------------

Well, I took my FannyMac off and the problem disappeared!  And when I
put the fan back in proximity to the mac, the waving reappeared.  Such a simple
solution.  Now, should I get rid of the fan and have a smooth screen or
keep it and watch the waves...
 
Thanks for all the replies...  Hope this helps someone.
 
Tom Chavez
ucbvax!chavez

jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (05/16/86)

> My new board has a much brighter display; I used to keep the brightness
> control pretty much full up, I keep it at about 75% now.

There's a control on the analog board (as is the case on the video boards
for most terminals and also most TV sets) that controls the maximum
brightness available from the user-accessible brightness control.  In
most video boards (thus probably in the Macintosh too) it is actually just
another potentiometer in series with the brightness control (usually there's
another fixed resistor in series too, just in case you turn both to their
minimum-resistance position).  In some TV service manuals I've seen, you
set the internal control to give a particular voltage level when the
external control is set at maximum brightness, so it's probably best not
to haphazardly change it.

Regarding the power supply, though... for about 6 months I've been
periodically asking in here "what part fails"... well, mine finally failed,
and I found out: when it started giving the "jerking" display described
in the above posting, I showed it to one of our hardware maintenance
people next door, who said "oh, that means the insulation's breaking down
in the flyback transformer, usually, although also sometimes the magnets
on the yoke may be coming loose".  He said I could get a new flyback
transformer from one of the local electronics parts places, but finally
I took it in and got the board swapped, just to be safe.  I notice that
the new board has a different flyback transformer, and also it seems to
be farther away from some of the nearby components, so maybe it was arcing
to an adjacent component in the early boards... or maybe it was just a
defective lot of transformers.

Incidentally, I notice in my new power supply board that three of the
heat sinks have stubs of wires from rectifiers on them, where apparently
they took the rectifier + heat sink out, cut off the rectifier, and
reused the heat sink on a TO-220 transistor instead (so they didn't have
to reuse the hole where the rectifier lead was soldered).  This makes
me think those rectifiers must also fail frequently, which in turn makes
me think it really *does* get too hot in there...
-- 
E. Roskos

hsgj@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU (Dan Green) (05/19/86)

In article <2177@peora.UUCP> jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) writes:
>[...]
>
>Incidentally, I notice in my new power supply board that three of the
>heat sinks have stubs of wires from rectifiers on them, where apparently
>they took the rectifier + heat sink out, cut off the rectifier, and
>reused the heat sink on a TO-220 transistor instead (so they didn't have
>to reuse the hole where the rectifier lead was soldered).  This makes
>me think those rectifiers must also fail frequently, which in turn makes
>me think it really *does* get too hot in there...
>-- 
>E. Roskos

At the terminal center where I work there are 40 macintoshes (512K) which
are on continuously 20 hours a day, seven days a week (ie they are always
in use...).  At least once a day, one of the macs will mysteriously crash
because, in my humble opinion, it is overheating.  The vents on the top
get very warm.  If a user puts a book or papers over the top vents the
probability of a crash goes up by about 90% :-(.
   Occasionally I use PC's, and while I am not fond of the fan noise, I
am at least reassured that the thing won't crash due to overheating.  Of
course, I must admit that the PC's are usually empty while the Macs are
usually in use...

-- 
Dan Green    BITNET: hsgj@cornella   ARPA: hsgj@vax2.ccs.cornell.edu
~~~~~~~~~    UUCP:   {decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!cornell!batcomputer!hsgj

cjn@calmasd.UUCP (05/20/86)

The Mac Plus does use a different flyback than the old 512s.