jmsellens@watdragon.UUCP (John M Sellens) (04/25/86)
In article <3237@sdcc3.UUCP> borton@sdcc3.UUCP (Chris Borton) writes: >One of the most fun things to share with other Mac people are option-key >'tricks' you've discovered or heard about. Supposedly these are all >documented somewhere, but not obviously. Hence, a few more for those who >haven't heard already: The option and command keys have to be just about the stupidest thing on the mac. No documentation, obscure combinations of keys, no consistency. They go to all the trouble to make an easy to use, consistent interface, and then they tack on these obscure magic incantations to do the really useful stuff ... Dumb, dumb, dumb. (Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.) John
mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu (Lawrence J. Mazlack) (04/27/86)
>>One of the most fun things to share with other Mac people are option-key >>'tricks' you've discovered or heard about. Supposedly these are all >>documented somewhere, but not obviously. Hence, a few more for those who >>haven't heard already: > >The option and command keys have to be just about the stupidest thing >on the mac. No documentation, obscure combinations of keys, no >consistency. They go to all the trouble to make an easy to use, >consistent interface, and then they tack on these obscure magic >incantations to do the really useful stuff ... > Actually, I'm starting to like them. They are pretty useful for me when word processing (the thing that many people use their Macs/Lisas most for). I do a lot of stuff in MS Word and they do document it pretty well. It turns out that you can use a lot of the Word option-control stuff in Write as well. I will agree that it would be nice to have all of this compiled someplace. With my Word documentation, I am OK with text processing, but miss out on the piture stuff. Larry Mazlack mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu
borton@sdcc3.UUCP (Chris Borton) (04/28/86)
In article <921@watdragon.UUCP> jmsellens@watdragon.UUCP (John M Sellens) writes: >In article <3237@sdcc3.UUCP> borton@sdcc3.UUCP (Chris Borton) writes: >>One of the most fun things to share with other Mac people are option-key >>'tricks' you've discovered or heard about. Supposedly these are all >>documented somewhere, but not obviously. Hence, a few more for those who >>haven't heard already: > >The option and command keys have to be just about the stupidest thing >on the mac. No documentation, obscure combinations of keys, no >consistency. They go to all the trouble to make an easy to use, >consistent interface, and then they tack on these obscure magic >incantations to do the really useful stuff ... > I have recently heard that most of the option tricks for Finder 5.x *ARE* documented in the Mac+ manual. [courtesy Greg Robbins] Hooray! Finally, information beyond the tech notes for most people. On a more general note: option shortcuts are, in my opinion, one of the best ways to provide a fast method for doing things. According the the interface guidelines they should be documented somewhere, though. My best example of this is MacPaint: it has some wonderful option-shortcuts that I use ALL the time. They are nicely documented under a menu choice of Shortcuts. This provides a path for more advanced users to shorten the time/effort to accomplish certain tasks. For this reason, I think they are wonderful if done correctly. Simply put: option shortcuts should be just that: SHORTCUTS. If an option whiz-bang has an ability to do something that a normal menu/ pallette choice doesn't, then it shouldn't be there. Rather, it SHOULD have a menu choice. Beyond all that, I think they provide great information-swapping material! I always love discovering 'hidden routes' that the programmer left open... -Chris -- Chris Borton, UC San Diego Undergraduate CS; Micro Consultant, UCSD borton@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU || ...!{ucbvax,decvax,noscvax,ihnp4,bang}!sdcsvax!borton "Was soll ich darauf sagen?" "Nichts--das ist verboten!"
merchant@dartvax.UUCP (Peter Merchant) (04/29/86)
> The option and command keys have to be just about the stupidest thing > on the mac. No documentation, obscure combinations of keys, no > consistency. They go to all the trouble to make an easy to use, > consistent interface, and then they tack on these obscure magic > incantations to do the really useful stuff ... > > > John Most of the "really useful stuff" that the option keys do can be done in other normal documented kind of ways. Examples: Option-Drag To Trash This can be done just by doing a Get-Info and unlocking the file like you should do. Option-Close Box Just close all the windows. Yes, the Mac has "shortcuts" that, if you feel like memorizing them, you can speed things up. If you don't want to memorize them, though, things still work. Unlike other machines who shall remain nameless where you have to memorize weird commands. (Oh, of course, RMDIR removes a directory. How could I have not realised that.) The only gripe I have about these shortcuts is that they should be published someplace in the normal Macintosh manual, so there is a way to learn about them other than subscribing to bulletin boards. -- "There is something about you..." Peter Merchant
gus@Shasta.UUCP (04/30/86)
> In article <921@watdragon.UUCP> jmsellens@watdragon.UUCP (John M Sellens) writes: > > I have recently heard that most of the option tricks for Finder 5.x *ARE* > documented in the Mac+ manual. [courtesy Greg Robbins] Hooray! Finally, > information beyond the tech notes for most people. > > On a more general note: option shortcuts are, in my opinion, one of the best > ways to provide a fast method for doing things. According the the interface > guidelines they should be documented somewhere, though. My best example of > this is MacPaint: it has some wonderful option-shortcuts that I use ALL the > time. They are nicely documented under a menu choice of Shortcuts. > > This provides a path for more advanced users to shorten the time/effort to > accomplish certain tasks. For this reason, I think they are wonderful if > done correctly. Simply put: option shortcuts should be just that: SHORTCUTS. > If an option whiz-bang has an ability to do something that a normal menu/ > pallette choice doesn't, then it shouldn't be there. Rather, it SHOULD have a > menu choice. A-MEN! You missed one point, though. Many of MacPaint's "shortcuts" are not shortcuts at all but <<constrainers>> which limit the object that you draw in a particular way such as making ovals perfect circles. Mome of these have short cuts, some (like the grid mode) do not. There is some inconsistency here. Also, there are a few MacPaint goodies which even escaped the hints window. > > Beyond all that, I think they provide great information-swapping material! I > always love discovering 'hidden routes' that the programmer left open... > You seem to be contracticting yourself here. "Discovering" new undocumented tricks and shift-command-splot-swat-sequences used to be fun, but not anymore. The ones I REALLY hate are the tiny indicators like the finder HFS pixel which you would never notice unless you are specifically looking gor it. Come on folks. This is important information and should not be hidden so crudely! > -Chris > -- > Chris Borton, UC San Diego Undergraduate CS; Micro Consultant, UCSD > borton@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU || ...!{ucbvax,decvax,noscvax,ihnp4,bang}!sdcsvax!borton > "Was soll ich darauf sagen?" "Nichts--das ist verboten!" Gus Fernandez
db@cbosgd.UUCP (J. Muir) (05/01/86)
Several people have posted comments along the lines of "yes, the shortcuts are nice, but they should be documented (consistent with menu commands, etc.)" What is also needed, however, is a way to turn the shortcuts on and off. (They should probably default to being off.) Otherwise, naive users (and not-so-naive users) can accidentally type in a command or option key sequence, have no idea what they did, and in some cases, are unable to undo whatever the sequence did. I've been banging on computers for 15 years now, and still manage to get screwed up this way, usually as a result of having just typed on another keyboard of a different size and/or layout. In most of the software I use, there's usually no harm done, but I wouldn't expect less experienced people to be able to recognize that or recover from such mistakes. The "shortcut switch" could be implemented a number of ways, among them: o Yet another parameter in the non-volatile RAM, with control panel access o A per-application switch, say in the File or Control menu, whatever's appropriate. The second approach has the advantage of allowing different levels of expertise for different programs and doesn't require the basic surgery that the first one might. The setting of the switch would have to be non-volatile for it to be very useful, however (one thing I hate about some of the game programs I have is having to set a bunch of options every time I start them up -- yuk!). I seem to recall having read an article in ACM Communications (or another equally learned journal) several years ago on designing text editor command sets for both naive users and experts. I remember the article suggesting something similar to the approach I've outlined above, so I don't think the "shortcut switch" would be a very controversial idea. Dave Bursik/..cbosgd!db
mkr@mmm.UUCP (MKR) (05/02/86)
In article <2067@cbosgd.UUCP> db@cbosgd.UUCP (D. Bird) writes: >Several people have posted comments along the lines of "yes, the shortcuts >are nice, but they should be documented (consistent with menu commands, etc.)" > >What is also needed, however, is a way to turn the shortcuts on and off. >(They should probably default to being off.) Otherwise, naive users (and >not-so-naive users) can accidentally type in a command or option key sequence, >have no idea what they did, and in some cases, are unable to undo whatever >the sequence did. > Which shortcuts on the Mac are you referring to? I can't think of any that are dangerous or even likely to happen accidently. That doesn't mean that there aren't some, though... which ones were you thinking of? --MKR
ephraim@wang.UUCP (pri=8 Ephraim Vishniac x76659 ms1459) (05/13/86)
> >What is also needed, however, is a way to turn the shortcuts on and off. > >Otherwise, naive users (and not-so-naive users) can accidentally type in > >a command or option key sequence, have no idea what they did, and in > >some cases, are unable to undo whatever the sequence did. > > > Which shortcuts on the Mac are you referring to? I can't think > of any that are dangerous or even likely to happen accidently. That doesn't > mean that there aren't some, though... which ones were you thinking of? > > --MKR How about command-option-Quit in MacPaint? As one netizen discovered by accident, this does a shutdown! Rather awkward if you're using Switcher...
j_shapiro@hvrford.UUCP (Shapiro) (05/14/86)
[Pac Man's revenge...] These were documented in the Mac+ manual... Jonathan S. Shapiro Haverford College
baron@runx.OZ (Jason Haines) (05/23/86)
>How about command-option-Quit in MacPaint? As one netizen discovered >by accident, this does a shutdown! Rather awkward if you're using >Switcher... Correction: Command-Quit is all that's required to shut-down from MacPaint. /* Jason Haines STD: (02) 73-4444 * ElecEng Undergraduate ISD: +61 2 73-4444 * 73 Davidson Avenue ACSnet: baron@runx * Concord NSW 2137 CSNET: baron@runx.oz * AUSTRALIA ARPA: baron%runx.oz@seismo.css.gov * * UUCP: * {enea,hplabs,mcvax,prlb2,seismo,ubc-vision,ukc}!munnari!runx.oz!baron */ D