mklein@uiucdcsb.UUCP (07/12/86)
Is there a difference between
(1) an "enhanced" Mac512 (includes 800k internal drive, new ROM) plus
an upgrade to 1meg Ram (which costs me $80 more altogether
than a Mac+)
and
(2) a Mac+
?
The salesman I spoke to claimed that there was some architectural difference.
Is this true, and if so, will I have to get new versions of switcher, Ram
disk, and Ram cache for the Mac+, but not for the enhanced Mac512? I would
like to be able to use the public domain software I accumulated for my
unenhanced fat Mac with whatever I buy next (upgraded enhanced Mac512 or Mac+)
Thanks for your help,
Mark Klein
mklein@b.CS.UIUC.EDU.ARPAjimb@amdcad.UUCP (07/14/86)
In article <69600011@uiucdcsb> mklein@uiucdcsb.CS.UIUC.EDU writes: > >Is there a difference between > > (1) an "enhanced" Mac512 (includes 800k internal drive, new ROM) plus > an upgrade to 1meg Ram (which costs me $80 more altogether > than a Mac+) > >and > > (2) a Mac+ As far as I can tell with my 'enhanced 512' compared to my friends' mac+'s the differences are: less memory no SCSI port I have made no exhaustive comparison, but old things which bomb on his mac+ also bomb the same way on my 'enhanced' 512. Things which run on his but bomb on mine are all things which run out of memory. We have the same system/finder combination. If the 'enhancing' plus the RAM expansion costs more than the Mac+, I'd go for the Mac+. Reasons: Replacement SIMM RAM's are becoming available that make the expansion of the Mac+ to 4Meg simple, and eventually cheaper, than any add on board expansion to 4Meg for the 512 Mac. The number and type of SCSI peripherals which are becoming available, useful, and multi-vended is expanding. Because of the multiple sources, they are also relatively inexpensive. In respect to your wish to avoid 'growing pains' relative to your existing software base, I'm afraid it makes no difference. Many of my older public domain programs do not work properly, or at all, on the new system/finder with HFS. But note: keep them on disks with the old system. They still work there, just no HFS, scrolling menus (unless you use the public domain scrolling menu installer), grow box. You can even use the latest finder (as far as I can tell. -- Jim Budler Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (408) 749-5806 Usenet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra,intelca}!amdcad!jimb Compuserve: 72415,1200 Once and for all: I like my Macintosh
bill@crystal.UUCP (07/14/86)
In article <12303@amdcad.UUCP>, jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) writes: > If the 'enhancing' plus the RAM expansion costs more than the Mac+, I'd > go for the Mac+. Reasons: > > Replacement SIMM RAM's are becoming available that make the expansion > of the Mac+ to 4Meg simple, and eventually cheaper, than any add on > board expansion to 4Meg for the 512 Mac. Has anyone seen ANY 1Meg SIMMs? Oki is selling 256K ones for around double the chip price, but said a month ago that they didn't have 1Meg yet. MacMemory has a real screwball scheme of 256K chips wired up to look like 1Meg modules; they also claim that you need a daugther board, which DOES NOT sound reasonable. The 2 Meg MacMemory kits go for 475 or so, I hear, the 2.5 Meg are more. I'd really like to upgrade my Mac+ memory, but not with some baling-wire-and- spit contraption... bill -- William Cox Computer Sciences Department University of Wisconsin, Madison WI bill@crys.wisc.edu {ihnp4,seismo,allegra}!uwvax!bill
werner@ut-ngp.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (07/15/86)
> Has anyone seen ANY 1Meg SIMMs? Oki is selling 256K ones for around double > the chip price, but said a month ago that they didn't have 1Meg yet. > > MacMemory has a real screwball scheme of 256K chips wired up to look like > 1Meg modules; they also claim that you need a daugther board, which DOES NOT > sound reasonable. > > The 2 Meg MacMemory kits go for 475 or so, I hear, the 2.5 Meg are more. > I'd really like to upgrade my Mac+ memory, but not with some baling-wire-and- > spit contraption... 1. To answer the question: NO, I haven't seen any 1Meg SIMMs either, but ... 2. I am quite happy with the upgrades for both Mac and Mac+ from MacMemory. very clean board layout, very clean assembly work, very low power consumption (whatever that may buy you given the Mac's powersupply problems and the fact that you'd rather use 1Meg-chips than 256ers) a) on the old MAC, the upgrade is a daughter-board that needs to be "hacked" into the motherboard. trace cutting, chip-replacements, socket-installation and all. However, they do that for you for a very reasonable price, so we now let them do the hacking where we used to do it ourselves before. The board adds 1.5Meg in 256ers to give you 2 Meg total. It also comes with the sockets to plug in another 2 Meg in 1Meg-chips when you can afford them. runs without fan !!! and has the best/longest warranty period of anything I have looked at. b) on the Mac-Plus which comes with 4 "slots" filled with 4 of Apple's 256er SIMM-boards, MacMemory sells 1Meg-byte replacement boards, each populated with as many 256-er chips as all 4 Apple-boards together. They also sell a little plastic expansion-cage into which you can slip all 4 of Apple's SIMM-modules, in order to free up the other 3 sockets. If you can afford to or find a buyer for the Apple SIMMs, you could do without them and stick 4 of MacMem.'s 1Meg-byte cards into the 4 available board sockets. I, currently, am running without Apple's boards and only with MacMemory's memory. (Am I breaking some of "Apple's laws" here ??? (-:) In summary, I cannot agree with Bill's criticism describing the MacPlus upgrade as "baling-wire-and-spit contraption". However, for the old Mac, there are now memory upgrades that "clip-on" to the 68000. But I'd rather reserve that that option for clipping on either a SCSI-port, a 68881, or a Micah-HD20 ..., wouldn't you? Cheers, ---Werner PS: if someone knows of better upgrade possibilities at a reasonable price, I'd sure like to know about it; I certainly don't mean to say that there is no possibility to come up with something better. But it's always the same alternatives: take the best that's available *NOW*, or suffer while waiting for better stuff coming out *REAL SOON NOW*.
dtw@k.cs.cmu.edu.UUCP (07/16/86)
> .... If you can afford to or find a buyer for the > Apple SIMMs, you could do without them and stick 4 of MacMem.'s > 1Meg-byte cards into the 4 available board sockets. I talked to someone at MacMemory about the possibility of putting four of their boards into a MacPlus. I was told that this was not feasible because the MacPlus power supply couldn't handle it. Duane -- arpa: dtw@k.cs.cmu.edu -- arpa: dtw@k.cs.cmu.edu
werner@ut-ngp.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (07/16/86)
In article <1035@k.cs.cmu.edu>, dtw@k.cs.cmu.edu (Duane Williams) writes: > > > .... If you can afford to or find a buyer for the > > Apple SIMMs, you could do without them and stick 4 of MacMem.'s > > 1Meg-byte cards into the 4 available board sockets. > > I talked to someone at MacMemory about the possibility of putting four of > their boards into a MacPlus. I was told that this was not feasible because > the MacPlus power supply couldn't handle it. > > Duane yep, we talked with them also, and whereas the initial response was the same as yours, talking with a "higher-up" we were told: "no problem. we have several running without problems for quite some time already". Whom to believe? Well, you all know of my low opinion of the power-supply (having been bitten more than once already - not on a machine with a Max-board, though!), so other than pointing out the "possibility" of installing more than 2 Meg, I would hesitate to "recommend" doing so, based on the lack of sufficient data and experience that I have myself with such a configuration. ... there is, however, a new toy that just arrived here last week, and it is now in "test". The item I am hinting at here is the "Three-to-One Touchboard" from Human Touch, which was shown at the Frisco show in January, and had been on order since then (ouch!!!) It features: o a 12.5MHz 68000 processor [functionally replaces the Mac's] o 1.5MB of RAM [works with either 128K or 512K Macs] o 384 KB of empty ROM-sockets [burn your favorite program into ROM and watch it fly (can you, legally, back up a program into ROM? compilers and such? I guess, I ought to ask the legal eagles in net.legal about that.)] o ExpandaTouch(TM) external card cage [brings the signals from the 68000 to 2 external connectors, where you can hook up whatever devices anyone will come out with that uses them. For example, you can create SCSI ports ...] Given that the literature I have handy is outdated and I am not the one playing with the upgraded machine, all I can say so far is, that the speed increase is noticable immediately when working on the desktop opening and closing windows, putting files away, etc. You immediately get spoiled and start disliking the speed of a "slow" Mac ... (-: Seriously, we use 2 simple little demos to show the difference. In one, we open all the folder-windows the system will let us and then use OPTION-CLOSE to order them all closed. ... and watch them disappear. In the second demo, we pull lots of files out of the folders and drop them onto the DeskTop; then we do a "Put Away" from the DeskTop Menu "File" ..... and watch those get zapped. Of course, where the speed increase really becomes meaningfull is with a program like MacSpin, which really needs the faster speed and so far, only the "expensive" Levco monsters could help with that. But we also got to watch one Levco-monster here bomb a lot, whereas we have had no problem with the 3-on-1 yet. And if you are a developer, I know you would rather wait only half as long for your compiles to tell you that there is still another bug ....((-: We did, however, have to remove the internal Micah-20 HD from the machine the 3-on-1 went in, because there was no way to share space and 68000 to clip-on, and we did not want to 'experiment'. I think Human Touch advertises in all the mags now, so check there for more info. Prices are around $1,000, but folks on this net should know better and find them for around $800 (ask if you have to). And before I forget, let me tell you about another new gadget which I happened to start playing with this week (and which is advertised everywhere, in case you want to follow-up). I am very much addicted to my Assimilation Trackball, and here comes Honeywell's Lynx trackball, which has one feature that I really like: a second-button, which works as a "Click-and-Hold" button, such that when you click it on a menubar-item, it drops down the menu, which stays open without having to hold any button so that you can move to the item you want to pick, and click there with the second button, without running the danger of having the finger slip off the 'held button' when passing over 'the wrong item' with the unfortunate results that can lead to .. (alright, so you have never done a CUT where you meant to do a COPY, and lost the contents of your Clipboard. and I could tell worse ...) This "click-and-hold" button was also useful with MacSpin, where you need to hold the mouse to keep the image spinning. A real drag when you are giving a talk using a large screen monitor, and you can't take your fingers of the mouse-button. But as I like the "feel" and the larger size of both buttons and ball of the Assimilation better, I would prefer to figure out a way to convert one of its buttons into a click-and-hold button rather than switching to the Lynx. It's going to be a tough choice. Of course, there is also the 'software solution' of some company (I forget who) which installed a mod into your system which creates a GEM-like behavior, where the menu drops down as soon as the mouse-cursor is moved onto a menu-item; but that causes me so much grief with Switcher and others, that, to me, it is not a feasable alternative. ---Werner (my coffee got cold again, darnit ...)
phil@sivax.UUCP (07/17/86)
> Has anyone seen ANY 1Meg SIMMs? Oki is selling 256K ones for around double > the chip price, but said a month ago that they didn't have 1Meg yet. > > MacMemory has a real screwball scheme of 256K chips wired up to look like > 1Meg modules; they also claim that you need a daugther board, which DOES NOT > sound reasonable. > > The 2 Meg MacMemory kits go for 475 or so, I hear, the 2.5 Meg are more. > I'd really like to upgrade my Mac+ memory, but not with some baling-wire-and- > spit contraption... > The MacMemory enhancement called MaxPlus ENHANCED is not a BAILING wire contraption. It is 2 meg of SIMMS (2 x 1meg Simms) using 256K chips. I do not know about their regular 1 meg boards, you are probably right, since they told me that they 'modify the apple memory architecture slightly' and the original ones ARE NOT internal HD compatible, the Enhanced are. You use 2 1 meg simms, and 2 256k simms, giving 2.5 meg. You could use 4 1meg simms, to get 4 meg, but it exceeds apples power supply limits (Darn Apple, developing a power supply EXACTLY right for a closed machine architecture, the Mac+ should have also enhanced the power supply). MacMemory is working on, and has prototypes of 1meg Simms using 1meg chips, but the cost at this time is prohibitive due to chip prices. I am not affiliated with MacMemory except for OEMing their products starting next week, but it does get me the 'straight scoop'. Phil Hunt ..ucbvaX!CALMA!SIVAX!PHIL