[net.micro.mac] Application availablity on Mac, Atari ST, and Amiga

sjl@amdahl.UUCP (Steve Langdon) (08/03/86)

About 9 months ago I posted an article explaining my views on the importance
of a consistent user interface on a single user micro.  I still feel that
this is a critical issue, but now it is time to ask if high quality
applications for the Atari ST and Amiga are available.  Both machines have
been around for a while and it is reasonable to expect good software.

To attempt to organize the discussion I will suggest some categories, and
provide a summary of what is available for the Mac.

Word Processing

	MacWrite - simple WYSIWYG suitable for many uses
	MS Word - not quite WYSIWYG suitable for most documents

	A whole new generation of word processing software for the Mac is
	about to be released including MS Word 2.0, MacAuthor, MultiWrite, etc.

My impression is that the word processing software available for the Atari ST
and Amiga cannot do what MacWrite could on release.

Spreadsheets

	Excel - the best
	Multiplan - pretty good
	Crunch - I do not know it

The only spreadsheet I have heard of on the Atari ST is VIP Planner which
did not (when reviewed) use a windowing interface.

Communications

	MacTerminal - OK vt100
	VersaTerm - Excellent vt100, 4014, and others
	Red Ryder - Well thought of, but I do not use it
	*many* others

	uw - multi-window Unix interface (from John Brunner of LLL)
	Seagate - Appletalk gateway to the internet world (Bill Croft SU)

All sorts of communications software is available and more appears all the time.

Database

	Helix - powerful icon-oriented relational DB
	OMNIS 3 - powerful DB
	OverView - fast DB with some spreadsheet-like features
	FileVision - DB with unique visual interface
	*many* others

DBase III plus is on the way, and so many others that I lose track.

Development Systems

	Mac C (Consulair) - good C system with many special variants (020 etc.)
	Aztec - as on many systems + symbolic debugger
	Megamax - does the job
	Lightspeed C - Unusually quick integrated environment(editor,make, etc.)
	*many* others including almost all languages I know and some I don't

More stuff is on the way from Apple and others.  Apple are working on reducing
development effort using a sophisticated application skeleton (MacApp),  Think
will have QuickSilver Pascal, others will keep upgrading.

Graphics

	MacPaint - the original
	FullPaint - what MacPaint would have been with 512K
	MacDraw - needs upgrade, but still the best tool I know for diagrams
	MacDraft - will be great if the bugs are fixed
	*many* others

Multifunction

	Jazz - better than they get credit for
	MS Works - we will know when they release it

DeskTop Publishing

	PageMaker - the most prominent
	ReadySetGo - cheaper
	MacPublisher - cheaper

The Mac owns the low end of this market, are there any Atari or Amiga packages?


It remains vital to me that I can transfer data (including graphics) between
the applications I use.  Another key feature is the relatively uniform support
for printed output.  By this I mean I can use either a dot matrix printer or
a LaserWrite in either portrait or landscape mode from any application.

I have included a copy of my old posting because it still appears relevent.
I read too many items about applications that only run in certain environments
on the Atari ST and Amiga for my taste.  I also do not see any indications
that application-independent text-and-graphics cut-and-paste exists except
on the Mac.

Please note that I do not want to start a round of "my machine is better than
yours" flames.  I want reasonable comments on the things which make these
machines useful for day-to-day applications.  I did not include PC-like
systems because until MS Windows (or less likely GEM) becomes accepted
they do not offer the same type of environment.

>From postnews Thu Oct  3 14:53:48 1985
>Subject: User Interface Consistency
>Newsgroups: net.micro,net.micro.amiga,net.micro.atari,net.micro.mac
>Distribution: net
>Followup-To: net.micro
>
>There has been a fair amount of discussion about the relative merits
>of the Amiga, ST520, and the Mac.  However, little of it has covered
>what I consider to be a fundmental issue - user interface consistency.
>
>One of the most important aspects of the Macintosh is the predictable
>nature of the user interface presented by applications.  I own almost
>all of the Microsoft products (Multiplan, Chart, Word, File, and as of
>yesterday Excel), MacDraw, MacProject, MacTerminal, MacPascal, Mac C 4.0
>(Consulair's fine C compiler), and I have more Public Domain packages
>than I know what to do with.  With some relatively minor exceptions they
>all follow the user interface guidelines that Apple established.  This
>means that I can transfer between applications without having to learn
>a completely new set of commands or conventions.
>
>I do not plan to discuss the wisdom of the user interface that Apple
>choose, but I do believe that this uniformity is vital.  It allows me
>to become productive with a new piece of software in a fraction of the
>time that is needed on other systems.
>
>Now coming back to the Amiga and the ST520.  What will the software for
>these machines look like when it is available?  I do not doubt that they
>currently offer more hardware bang for the buck than the Macintosh.  I
>also do not fault them for having a less mature set of applications -
>they are, after all, much newer.  However, I am concerned that they may
>never offer the kind of environment that the Macintosh now offers.
>
>I see no sign of Atari or Commodore making a vigorous commitment to a
>uniform interface.  When the Mac was released Apple provided MacWrite
>and MacPaint.  These programs, while not perfect, provided a very good
>example of how the interface was meant to be done.  To the best of my
>knowledge no such examples exist for the ST520.  As the Amiga is not
>yet available I cannot determine what it will provide.  Unfortunately,
>I have heard comments attributed to the Amiga designers indicating that
>they are not in favor of a standard user interface.
>
>On the basis of the reasoning above I continue to recommend that friends
>buy the Macintosh rather than the ST520 or the Amiga.  Comments from
>other users of the net would be welcome.

-- 
Stephen J. Langdon                  ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!sjl

[ The article above is not an official statement from any organization
  in the known universe. ]

agr@vaxine.UUCP (Arnold Reinhold) (08/07/86)

------------------------------
I think Apple's much maligned decision to make the Mac a closed machine
deserves some of the credit for the availability of such a wide range
of high quality software with uniform user interfaces.  The closed Mac
gave developers a fixed target to shoot at, with the bundled applications
setting a standard of quality.  True the 128K Mac was a false start, but
without the distraction of a zillion different options, developers could
concentrate on getting the user interface right, assured of a large number
of identical machines in customers' hands that could run their products.

When the rumored open Mac is finally introduced, third party board
developers will be under pressure to make their products compatable with
the large software base, insuring that the interface standards will be
preserved.  Perhaps it is a good thing that Apple has waited so long
before opening up the Mac.

Arnold G. Reinhold