west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) (09/24/86)
.........................................................
I recently called SuperMac to ask them some questions about
their DataFrame 20 and was told the following:
1) The type of drive they are using internally is changing. Instead
of the MicroScience they have been using, they will be using
LPine OR SeaGate (by the way, I aplogize for the spelling, which
I am sure somebody will correct. I was talking to someone with
a heavy accent) which means that one person's DataFrame may not
be the same internally as another's. Yes, they will be selling
DFs with either type of drive.
2) The software included with the drive is out of beta and is
and official release.
3) The "XP upgrade", for $99 for the first month or so (Oct) and
$200 thereafter consists of an added ROM chip which helps out
the SCSI driver routines to speed everything up (the rumor I
originally heard was that the DF ROM cleaned up some sloppy
firmare in Apple's SCSI driver)
I was wondering if anyone had some comments on any of this. I think
I have heard about the "SeaGate" drive being used in some other
harddrive but I can't remember where. Has anybody had any experience
with the older or newer models of the DF20, or with a drive which
uses one of the new drives (SeaGate or LPine)? Any problems or
recommendations?
Has anyone seen or tried out the new software (in beta version or
released) and have any comments?
And lastly, has anyone had a chance to see the XP in action? Is the
difference worth it?
Well, that's a lot of questions, but I'd like all the information
I can get before I plop down $800+ for a DataFrame (as of this
moment, the DF still seems like the best drive for the $ I have seen).
Andyhoward@amdahl.UUCP (Howard C. Simonson) (09/24/86)
In article <724@bnrmtv.UUCP> west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) writes: > 3) The "XP upgrade", for $99 for the first month or so (Oct) and > $200 thereafter consists of an added ROM chip which helps out > the SCSI driver routines to speed everything up (the rumor I > originally heard was that the DF ROM cleaned up some sloppy > firmare in Apple's SCSI driver) I called Supermac yesterday to get the scoop on the XP enhancement and compatibility with a Monster Mac upgrade. The current implementation of the XP is a small ROM board which, as most ROM boards work, fits into the Mac ROM sockets ( he didn't say but I would guess you pop the Apple ROM's onto the infant card ). My purchase of a Dataframe is imminent and I was interested in compatibility with my Levco 2-meg upgrade. It is kind of impossible to slap the infant card on top of the daughter card already in there. I was told by Supermac Tech. Support that "they like the Levco upgrade and they ``absolutely'' will come up with an XP implementation that works with the Monster". Now the big news, a Dataframe may be upgraded at any time to a Dataframe XP. Sold me. I don't know yet if it might entail reformatting or something. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer time: I am a happy user of a Levco Monter Mac and that is all. I expect to be a happy user of a Dataframe by tomorrow, and that is all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- I have no technical challenges, Howard C. Simonson just political ones. ...{dragon,hplabs,ihnp4,nsc}!amdahl!howard [ Opinion? What opinion!? I think you have the wrong guy... ]
korn@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) (09/25/86)
In article <724@bnrmtv.UUCP> west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) writes: >I recently called SuperMac to ask them some questions about >their DataFrame 20 and was told the following: > >1) The type of drive they are using internally is changing. Instead > of the MicroScience they have been using, they will be using > LPine OR SeaGate... Interesting. I was told that they are no longer using the SeaGates, and are switching exclusively to MicroScience, though they were also considering the LaPines. >2) The software included with the drive is out of beta and is > and official release. This I'm almost sure is jumping the gun a bit. We've JUST gotten Beta 1.4 of the Print Spooler (which seems to work w/out problems), and version 1.5 of the Initializer. They should have released versions of the Spooler and backup software in a week or two though (and since their drives are back ordered by 3 weeks, all the software included with drives ordered from now forward might ship with the official release). >3) The "XP upgrade", for $99 for the first month or so (Oct) and > $200 thereafter consists of an added ROM chip which helps out > the SCSI driver routines to speed everything up (the rumor I > originally heard was that the DF ROM cleaned up some sloppy > firmare in Apple's SCSI driver) I've also heard rumors about buffering and so forth. To answer the XP upgrade question in another posting, yes, the drive WILL require reformatting (unless my SuperMac contact lies...). There's been some delay w/the XP, b/c SuperMac thought they would have to support Apple's File Tags. But, after seeing Apple's SCSI (anyone played with that yet, btw?), they decided they didn't have to. Peter "Mr. SuperMac" Korn ----- Peter "Arrgh" Korn I know lots of honorary jews! Why, korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU some of my very best friends {decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!korn are honorary jews!
tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) (09/25/86)
In article <724@bnrmtv.UUCP> west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) writes: > > I was wondering if anyone had some comments on any of this. I think > I have heard about the "SeaGate" drive being used in some other > harddrive but I can't remember where. I think that the EasyDrive uses a Seagate. MacBriefs is selling them now: $699 for 20 meg, $959 for 30 meg, $1229 for 40 meg, $1529 for 60 meg. See the ad on the back of the current MacBriefs for more info ( Is mentions the type of drive. I don't have it in front of me, which is why I am not certain that it said Seagate ( I opened my 40 up and took a look, but could not see the name on the disk ) ). EasyDrive comes with no backup software or spooler, so add another $60 or so to compare the above prices with other disks. My dealer really likes the EasyDrive. Mine is about a month old now and the only problem I have had is a flakey LED. They have an LED on the front that flashes on disk access, and mine stops working about five minutes after the disk is turned on. Someday before the one year warranty runs out, I suppose I will take it back to the dealer and get them to fix the LED. It's fan is not as noisy as my Hyperdrive fan, but the disk is louder than the hyperdrive on accesses. -- What's the difference between a duck? Tim Smith USENET: sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim Compuserve: 72257,3706 Delphi or GEnie: mnementh
lulue@cod.UUCP (Dan L.Lulue) (09/26/86)
I have also been shopping for a hard disk. When I went to one of local Apple dealers the and asked about Dataframes the salesman took me into the repair shop and showed me four (4) of them sitting on the bench. They are referred to locally as "toasters." He suggested an Easydrive hich retails for $799 and has a built in fan. He also said that he was perfectly willing to sell me a Dataframe. Good luck. Dan. References: <724@bnrmtv.UUCP>
julian@riacs.ARPA (Julian E. Gomez) (09/26/86)
> I have also been shopping for a hard disk. When I went to one of local > Apple dealers the and asked about Dataframes the salesman took me into > the repair shop and showed me four (4) of them sitting on the bench. > They are referred to locally as "toasters." He suggested an Easydrive > hich retails for $799 and has a built in fan. He also said that > he was perfectly willing to sell me a Dataframe. Something like this makes me wonder which disk he has in stock and which he'd be willing to order. -- "Be alert ... the world needs more lerts!" Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez (julian@icarus.riacs.edu) (...decvax!decwrl!julian@icarus.riacs.edu)
graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU (Dan Graifer) (09/29/86)
In article <724@bnrmtv.UUCP> west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) writes: >... Has anybody had any experience >with the older or newer models of the DF20, or with a drive which >uses one of the new drives (SeaGate or LPine)? Any problems or >recommendations?... When I was shopping for drives last winter, Warp 9 claimed theirs was a LaPine drive, and asserted that it was the only drive with automatic head lift and lock upon power-down on the market. They also made some very strong claims regarding transient acceleration (ie bump) tollerence of the drive. I ended up buying a Dataframe (in April '86), and I have had absolutely no problems with it. The only problem I have heard of is a noisy static brush, which I have heard has been eliminated on newer drives. Since I firmly believe in not fixing anything that isn't broken, I have resisted the temptation to open my drive; I thus have no idea whose hardware is inside. Dan Graifer graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU
west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) (10/01/86)
> In article <724@bnrmtv.UUCP> west@bnrmtv.UUCP (Andrew West) writes: > > >2) The software included with the drive is out of beta and is > > and official release. > > This I'm almost sure is jumping the gun a bit. We've JUST gotten Beta > 1.4 of the Print Spooler (which seems to work w/out problems), and > version 1.5 of the Initializer. They should have released > versions of the Spooler and backup software in a week or two though > (and since their drives are back ordered by 3 weeks, all the software > included with drives ordered from now forward might ship with the > official release). > > >3) The "XP upgrade", for $99 for the first month or so (Oct) and > > $200 thereafter consists of an added ROM chip which helps out > > the SCSI driver routines to speed everything up (the rumor I > > originally heard was that the DF ROM cleaned up some sloppy > > firmare in Apple's SCSI driver) > > I've also heard rumors about buffering and so forth. To answer the > XP upgrade question in another posting, yes, the drive WILL require > reformatting (unless my SuperMac contact lies...). There's been > some delay w/the XP, b/c SuperMac thought they would have to support > Apple's File Tags. But, after seeing Apple's SCSI (anyone played > with that yet, btw?), they decided they didn't have to. > > Peter "Mr. SuperMac" Korn > ----- I called SuperMac again and asked them about the XP and the software changes. They claim that the XP upgrade will be out by mid-Oct and that the software *is* out of beta (by the way Peter, I have the same version of the Initializer as you, but my Spooler is 3.0d. I have version .81Beta of the Backup program) and, besides being included with all new drives, can be obtained at dealers by the end of the week (Oct 3rd). Incidentally, the people I talked to at SuperMac claim that the XP upgrade does *not* require drive reformating or even hardware mods to the DataFrame itself--just the ROM board inside the Mac. It should make the Mac about two times as fast during Mac<->HD exchanges. I also asked them about a program by FWB (of "HD Utilities" fame) software called "HardDisk Partitions" which they claim works fine with the DataFrame. I am really interested in this program as a way to mount MFS volumes (or at least HFS volumes with everthing in the root level) so that I can run programs which either don't work with HFS or just require that all files be at root level. It would be a nicer way of using these programs when I want to than always leaving them on the desktop or constantly moving them in and out of folders. Has anybody had any experience with this program yet or heard anything good or bad from anbody who has used it? Andy
korn@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) (10/04/86)
I would like to appologize to the net, firstly, b/c the DataFrame
software that I sent out on net.sources.mac was much too large, and
many sites didn't receive it, and secondly, b/c it turns out that
the PrintSpooler and PrintSpooler_DA turned out to NOT be the final
releases of those programs.
Furthermore, the permission to post the PrintSpooler was taken back
(after the fact...).
I now have what I'm assured are the release copies of the PrintSpooler
and it's queueing DA, as well as the Backup program and version 1.5 of
their Initializer and updater. I am making the later two items and
associated documentation, as well as the Parking program, available
to public ftp on ucbvax.berkeley.edu (in the pub/mac directory).
I will also put the PrintSpooler and Backup program (and docs) into
this directory the moment I receive SuperMac's permission (basically
they don't want the DataFrame specific version on BBS's and Nets
until the comercial version is available in stores).
Peter
-----
Peter "Arrgh" Korn I know lots of honorary jews! Why,
korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU some of my very best friends
{decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!korn are honorary jews!korn@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) (10/04/86)
>I called SuperMac again and asked them about the XP and the software >changes. They claim that the XP upgrade will be out by mid-Oct and that >the software *is* out of beta (by the way Peter, I have the same version >of the Initializer as you, but my Spooler is 3.0d. I have version .81Beta >of the Backup program) and, besides being included with all new drives, >can be obtained at dealers by the end of the week (Oct 3rd). Tom Riely (sp?) came to the BMUG meeting last Thursday and showed the various SuperMac products, including the XP upgrade. He also answered questions, handed out the new versions of everything, and told me, "no, whatever anyone else at SuperMac said, don't post the spooler or backup software YET". The XP upgrade is a hardware mod that fits over the ROMS. For those with 512Ke macs, there will be a DataPort/XP announced sometime this month or next. The price of the XP upgrade will be $100 initially (thorugh Oct. 15th), and then it will jump to $200 (retail). I'd order mine now, even though they probably won't ship 'till right around the 15th. >Incidentally, the people I talked to at SuperMac claim that the XP upgrade >does *not* require drive reformating or even hardware mods to the >DataFrame itself--just the ROM board inside the Mac. It should make >the Mac about two times as fast during Mac<->HD exchanges. Tom also cautioned that the XP upgrade doesn't mean a 100% increase in speed across the board. Programs that need their resources loaded into memory require the processor to spend time allocating memory and resource space during the loading process--during this time the hard drive is waiting for the processor! Thus the XP upgrade won't speed up the process of loading programs much. BUT... you should get basically all of the 100% increase when working with simple text stuff (like MacWrite files, .h files, etc. etc.). Peter ----- Peter "Arrgh" Korn I know lots of honorary jews! Why, korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU some of my very best friends {decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!korn are honorary jews!
korn@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) (10/05/86)
>>Incidentally, the people I talked to at SuperMac claim that the XP upgrade >>does *not* require drive reformating or even hardware mods to the >>DataFrame itself--just the ROM board inside the Mac. It should make >>the Mac about two times as fast during Mac<->HD exchanges. After having reformatted my SuperMac with version 1.5 of the Initializer, I have some doubts to that. The first time I timed my drive (with the hard drive timing program that came across the net a few weeks ago), I got something like 32 sec. on the 100 32K reads, and 32 sec. on the 100 32K writes. I just timed it today (after reformatting with 1.5), and it timed at 27.1 sec. on the reads, and 28.6 sec. on the writes. The XP upgrade may not *require* reformatting, but something in either the reformatting or the new SCSI drivers (gotten by running the Updater program) does speed up reads and writes. Peter ----- Peter "Arrgh" Korn I know lots of honorary jews! Why, korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU some of my very best friends {decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!korn are honorary jews!