ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman) (09/10/86)
If you decide to buy More, be careful, it is very buggy. Myself and two of my friends all had discs trashed by the program. In my case I was simply printing out a moderate size chart (about 3 pages) when the screen turned into rows of zebras -- the floppy on which the More program was on had to be reformatted. The people of Living Video Text have not returned any of my calls over the past two weeks. My other two friends lost their hard discs, one an Apple HD-20, the other a SCSI drive while doing other operations. We each bought the More product from different computer dealers and all of us were using unmodified Mac Pluses. -- David Whiteman, University of California, San Diego The America Cup, don't leave Perth without it.
julian@riacs.ARPA (Julian E. Gomez) (09/17/86)
> If you decide to buy More, be careful, it is very buggy. Myself and > two of my friends all had discs trashed by the program. In my case > I was simply printing out a moderate size chart (about 3 pages) when > the screen turned into rows of zebras -- the floppy on which the > More program was on had to be reformatted. The people of Living > Video Text have not returned any of my calls over the past two > weeks. My other two friends lost their hard discs, one an Apple > HD-20, the other a SCSI drive while doing other operations. We each > bought the More product from different computer dealers and all of > us were using unmodified Mac Pluses. > > -- > David Whiteman, > University of California, San Diego > > The America Cup, don't leave Perth without it. I've been using More for more than a month and haven't found a single bug in it yet, although I haven't tried what David was doing. My documents have ranged in size from 1 to 20 pages. I'm running on a Mac+ with a DF20. There is a bug I found using More but it's Apple's fault. By now everyone has heard of the problem with setting keyboard repeat to Off -- the next time you boot keyboard repeat is back on even though the control panel says it's off. So you can get around this by explicitly turning it off each time you boot (an obvious pain in the ass; it's easier to just set it to Long). Turns out that if you do have it set to off and have rebooted, then More will hang when you use the scroll bars, either X or Y bar using any of the scroll mechanisms. If keyboard repeat is set to anything else, or if you have explicitly set it to off, the bug will not show. Living Videotext agreed that this was an Apple bug, which didn't surprise me. I don't know about them not calling back because whenever I've called they immediately transfer me to a Tech Rep. -- "If Chaos himself sat umpire, what better could he do?" Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez (julian@riacs) (...decvax!decwrl!julian@riacs)
joel@gould9.UUCP (Joel West) (09/22/86)
I used MORE to produce about a 30 page report and I found tons of bugs.
Although it's a nice idea for a product, it was obviously rushed to
market with inadequate testing (If they had beta testers, they didn't
get their money's worth.). For $295, I would expect they would
be serious about fixing these problems eventually.
("tons" = more than I can count on one hand, or remember without
making a list)
--
Joel West MCI Mail: 282-8879
Western Software Technology, POB 2733, Vista, CA 92083
{cbosgd, ihnp4, pyramid, sdcsvax, ucla-cs} !gould9!joel
joel%gould9.uucp@NOSC.ARPAal@aurora.UUCP (Al Globus) (09/22/86)
> Summary: bugs galore > > I used MORE to produce about a 30 page report and I found tons of bugs. I have a friend who uses MORE extensively. His opinions are usually well based in fact. He claims that MORE is exceptionally unbuggy and very dependable. I used MORE myself just to fool around. I found a few things I didn't like but no out and out bugs.
egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) (09/26/86)
> > Summary: bugs galore > > > > I used MORE to produce about a 30 page report and I found tons of bugs. > > I have a friend who uses MORE extensively. His opinions are usually > well based in fact. He claims that MORE is exceptionally unbuggy and > very dependable. I used MORE myself just to fool around. I found > a few things I didn't like but no out and out bugs. Let me add another voice of praise for MORE. I like the program very much and use it in place of Think Tank 512, which I also own. The Tree Charts are just wonderful. I have not found any bugs to date, but do agree with other who have wondered why there is no UNDO function. If you would like to see a nice bit of productivity software be sure and see it. -- Eric Geoffrey Vann Analysts International (Chicago Branch) (312) 882-4673 ..!ihnp4!aicchi!egv
shulman@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Jeff Shulman) (09/26/86)
[ This is being posted by me on behalf of Larry Loeb ] The following message hit the net about a week ago: >Subject: Warning about More >From: ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman @ U.C. San Diego, Academic Computere >nter) >(16 lines) More? [ynq] >If you decide to buy Morwe, be careful, it is very buggy. Myself and >two of my friends all had discs trashed by the program. In my case >[more complaints] >-- >David Whiteman, >University of California, San Diego It was cross-posted to the Byte Information eXchange (BIX) where Dave Winer, the president of Living Videotext made the following reply: ========== macintosh/net.mac #317, from dwiner, 824 chars, Sat Sep 13 14:23:29 1986 Comment to 314. Comment(s). ---------- Larry, please transmit the following message: This is the first time I've heard of such a problem with MORE - so far it's been a very reliable software product, with the usual little glitches and problems, but nothing like what you describe! Honestly, I find it hard to believe that you **and** your friends had the problem - unless there is some common denominator - something different about all three of your systems, and it seems like it would have to be something **very uncommon** in the rest of the user base (numbering about 14,000 to date). The other thing you report, that you have not gotten an answer from LVT in two weeks is unbelievable. I would like to hear more about that! Please call me at 415-964-6300 on Monday, and let's get to the bottom of this. Thanks! Dave WIner President, Living Videotext ----------------------- This reply was posted to the net. There has however, been another aspect to all this that has since arisen, as the next message from Dave on BIX will show: ========== macintosh/net.mac #329, from dwiner, 884 chars, Thu Sep 18 14:47:10 1986 Comment to 314. ---------- Larry, I ask that you transmit this message to net.mac... I don't know who David Whiteman is, and neither does UCSD! We have no record of him having ever called Living Videotext, nor is he a registered user of any of our products. I called UCSD's Academic Computing Center, and spoke with their director, Jerry Fitzsimmons. He's never heard of "David Whiteman". Apparently he has some grievance with Living Videotext, and I wish he would first explain, 1) who he is and 2) where and when he got MORE. I want to go on the record as saying that MORE does not have any problems of the nature as "Mr. Whiteman" describes, and that it is almost unthinkable that LVT support people wouldn't return a user's call within 48 hours. I think Mr. Whiteman should watch what claims he makes - we take our customers seriously, and our reputation - and if he damages us, we will pursue him. ====end BIX==== I think the point of unscrupulous users conducting economic sabotage on the net is well taken. If anyone has knowledge of this "Mr. Whiteman" please have him send me mail at the address below. --Larry Loeb, moderator of BIX macintosh conference uucp:...decvax!yale!spock!lloeb BIX:lloeb Delphi:ELEL CI$:72466,1465
jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) (09/28/86)
+--------------- | In article <5954@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> shulman@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Jeff Shulman) writes: | > | >[ This is being posted by me on behalf of Larry Loeb ] | > | >The following message hit the net about a week ago: | > | >>Subject: Warning about More | >>From: ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman @ U.C. San Diego, Academic Computere | >>nter) | >>-- | >>David Whiteman, | >>University of California, San Diego +--------------- | >I don't know who David Whiteman is, and neither does UCSD! We have no record | >of him having ever called Living Videotext, nor is he a registered user of | >any of our products. | > | >I called UCSD's Academic Computing Center, and spoke with their director, | >Jerry Fitzsimmons. He's never heard of "David Whiteman". | > | >Apparently he has some grievance with Living Videotext, and I wish he would | >first explain, 1) who he is and 2) where and when he got MORE. | > | >I want to go on the record as saying that MORE does not have any problems of | >the nature as "Mr. Whiteman" describes, and that it is almost unthinkable that +--------------- | > | >I think the point of unscrupulous users conducting economic sabotage | >on the net is well taken. If anyone has knowledge of this "Mr. Whiteman" | >please have him send me mail at the address below. | > | >--Larry Loeb, moderator of BIX macintosh conference | >uucp:...decvax!yale!spock!lloeb BIX:lloeb | >Delphi:ELEL CI$:72466,1465 +--------------- We may have even more sabotage around. Take a look below: +--------------- | Relay-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site amdcad.UUCP | Path: amdcad!amd!intelca!oliveb!hplabs!ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdcc6!ix21 | From: ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman) | Newsgroups: net.sources.mac,net.micro.mac | Subject: Adventure Game | Message-ID: <2860@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU> | Date: 14 Sep 86 19:46:04 GMT | Date-Received: 16 Sep 86 04:56:56 GMT | Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center | Lines: 19 | Xref: amdcad net.sources.mac:1356 net.micro.mac:8085 | | I just posted in net.sources.mac an adventure written by a friend of | mine. He used World Builder, which is the same program used to | write Encanted Scepters which is a commercial program. Even though | it is a very long program I am sure you will enjoy it. Just don't | take it to seriously and keep it mind that it is a first effort at | adventure writing. Commands are entered both by typing commands | and pointing at various objects with the mouse. | | This program was tested on a MacPlus only. It should work on a 512K | Mac, but one was not available for testing -- it may even work on a | 128KMac. I will gladly forward any comments or any requests for | help. | | | -- | David Whiteman, | University of California, San Diego | | The America Cup, don't leave Perth without it. +--------------- I had kept this around, waiting to download it, (355K), I decided to do a strings on it, found this: +--------------- | This is not the original disk, or the disk is defective. +--------------- This implied copy-protection to me, so I looked up the announcement in net.micro.mac and recognized the name, as being the same joker in the More problem. I don't think I'll waste my time, effort and money downloading a probably pirated, and/or non-working, practical joke. (355K!!). Be warned! -- Jim Budler Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (408) 749-5806 Usenet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4}!amdcad!jimb Compuserve: 72415,1200 Someday I'll learn not to fight with children.
jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) (09/30/86)
In article <13185@amdcad.UUCP> jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) writes: >+--------------- >| In article <5954@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> shulman@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Jeff Shulman) writes: >| > >| >[ This is being posted by me on behalf of Larry Loeb ] >| >... >| >>From: ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman @ U.C. San Diego, Academic Computere >| >>nter) >| >>-- >| >>David Whiteman, >| >>University of California, San Diego >+--------------- >| >I don't know who David Whiteman is, and neither does UCSD! We have no record David Whiteman called me today as a result of my posting concerning the game. He is a real person, and is at the UCSD Medical Center. >| >Apparently he has some grievance with Living Videotext, and I wish he would >| >... I assume he will be contacting Living Videotext. He was out of town. > >We may have even more sabotage around. Take a look below: > I was wrong, the game is genuine. I received this mail today also. +--------------- | From amdahl!cit-vax!tybalt.caltech.edu!wetter Mon Sep 29 20:24:29 1986 | Date: Mon, 29 Sep 86 18:44:48 PDT | From: amdahl!cit-vax!tybalt.caltech.edu!wetter (Pierce T. Wetter) | Message-Id: <8609300144.AA00893@tybalt.caltech.edu> | To: cit-vax!amdahl!amdcad!jimb | Subject: Re: Warning about More | Newsgroups: net.micro.mac | In-Reply-To: <13185@amdcad.UUCP> | References: <5954@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> | Organization: Calfornia Institute of Technology | Cc: | Status: RO | | I downloaded said game and it was ok. The original disk stuff is probably | a holdover from world builder. | Pierce Wetter | +--------------- >I had kept this around, waiting to download it, (355K), I decided to >do a strings on it, found this: > >+--------------- >| This is not the original disk, or the disk is defective. >+--------------- > >This implied copy-protection to me, so I looked up the announcement Mr. Whiteman's explanation of the statement above was similar to Pierce Wetter's. Mr. Whiteman agreed that the chain of postings had lead me to a reasonable conclusion, and that my posting was not out of any malice. I feel that my posting was justified in the light of the evidence I had, but feel also that this retraction is also necessary. My apologies to David Whiteman. -- Jim Budler Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (408) 749-5806 Usenet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4}!amdcad!jimb Compuserve: 72415,1200
ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman) (09/30/86)
In a second article Jim Budler (amdcad!jmb) raised the stated that I may either be a pirate or practical joker. He based this because of a game I posted some time ago called Radical Castle. He based this on the assumption that he found the string: +--------------- | This is not the original disk, or the disk is defective. +--------------- as a part of the program. Despite the presence of this string the program Radical Castle is not a copy-protected program, and I am authorized to post this program by the author on Usenet. This program is created by a commercial program called World Builder written by Silicon Beach Software. On page 4 of the manual for World Builder paragraph 6 states: +------------- | There are no restrictions on the use of programs created with World | Builder. It is your choice what you do with them. You may give | them away, release them as shareware, or even sell them. +------------- The copy of World Builder that was used to build Radical Castle was an authorized beta copy. I assume that this is the reason the above string appears in the program. None of the programs produced by World Builder is copy protected in anyway. In fact World Builder itself is not copy protected. Jim Budler also stated: I don't think I'll waste my time, effort and money downloading a probably pirated, and/or non-working, practical joke. (355K!!). Well as I already stated it is not pirated. I have received over 5 letters from people saying that they enjoyed the game, so I can also assure you that it is a working program. I do admit that the program is amateurish. It is the author's first attempt to write an adventure, and there are some bugs left in the game. I will cover the bugs in a separate posting. World Builder itself, I believe is an excellent product. I hope now that I have presented the facts as I see them people will understand that I am not a pirate nor a practical joker. I understand how Jim was led to believe that I was one, and I hope now he will change his mind. I wish to add that I am not being compensated by Silicon Beach Software in anyway for mentioning their product. My only relationship with them is that I received a free copy of World Builder only because I helped them test the product not because I posted a game on the network. Chris Wiggington is the author of Radical Castle; I am not being compensated by him in anyway for posting Radical Castle. He is also not affiliated with Silicon Beach Software except for also being a beta tester. I only posted the game because I thought it would be of interest. Thank You, -- David Whiteman, University of California, San Diego The America Cup, don't leave Perth without it.
joel@gould9.UUCP (Joel West) (10/01/86)
In article <13185@amdcad.UUCP>, jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) writes: > We may have even more sabotage around. Take a look below: > > | From: ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman) > | Newsgroups: net.sources.mac,net.micro.mac > | Subject: Adventure Game > | Message-ID: <2860@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU> > | Date: 14 Sep 86 19:46:04 GMT > | > | I just posted in net.sources.mac an adventure written by a friend of > | mine. He used World Builder, which is the same program used to > | write Encanted Scepters which is a commercial program. Even though > | it is a very long program I am sure you will enjoy it. Just don't > | take it to seriously and keep it mind that it is a first effort at > | adventure writing. Commands are entered both by typing commands > | and pointing at various objects with the mouse. > | > | This program was tested on a MacPlus only. It should work on a 512K > | Mac, but one was not available for testing -- it may even work on a > | 128KMac. I will gladly forward any comments or any requests for > | help. > > I had kept this around, waiting to download it, (355K), I decided to > do a strings on it, found this: > > +--------------- > | This is not the original disk, or the disk is defective. > +--------------- I spoke with Eric Zocher, the VP R&D at Silicon Beach Software, who publish World Builder, and he said: 1) It is possible to make copy-protected games with World Builder, although for obvious reasons SBS will discuss this only with those planning on commercially releasing their 'world's. The string is present, however, on all World Builder games. 2) David Whiteman is a real person; 3) Chris Wiggington is a real person. I think we've had enough slander and paranoia by people who may not share one individual's personal beliefs. 'Nuff said. -- Joel West MCI Mail: 282-8879 Western Software Technology, POB 2733, Vista, CA 92083 {cbosgd, ihnp4, pyramid, sdcsvax, ucla-cs} !gould9!joel joel%gould9.uucp@NOSC.ARPA
jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) (10/01/86)
+--------------- | In article <795@gould9.UUCP> joel@gould9.UUCP (Joel West) writes: | >In article <13185@amdcad.UUCP>, jimb@amdcad.UUCP (Jim Budler) writes: | >>... | >I think we've had enough slander and paranoia by people who may not | >share one individual's personal beliefs. 'Nuff said. | >-- | > Joel West MCI Mail: 282-8879 +--------------- I have already posted an explanation and apology for the original posting, so I hope that this posting is a result of Usenet Lag. My reasons for the original posting have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with anyones personal beliefs. I made the posting because of the posting from two well known persons that David Whiteman did not exist. I stated in the posting that this was the reason for my posting. I made it based on that and only based on that. As soon as I learned of the true existance of David Whiteman I posted a statement to that effect and apologized. I do not think the posting said any more than: "Look, these guys said he isn't real. He posted this huge binary. Beware!" The worst language I used in the posting was "joker". I like being accused of slander and paranoia no more than David Whiteman enjoys being accused of being a joker. I hope this is the end of the matter. I have apologized to the network and to David Whiteman. I think that should be more than sufficient. -- Jim Budler Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (408) 749-5806 Usenet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4}!amdcad!jimb Compuserve: 72415,1200
ix21@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU (David Whiteman) (10/02/86)
I have spoken to Dave Winer of Living VideoText, and we cleared up any misunderstandings we had. Apparently he could not get a hold of me by phone because I am a medical student at UCSD. He called the undergraduate office and found out there is no undergrad with my name, then called the employment office and found out I am not an employee. Since my telephone number is also unlisted he assumed I was a pseudonym being used by a practical joker. I assured him I was not. The reason he had no registration card on file is that the dealer I bought More from refunded my money. I did return the card and am a registered owner of Think Tank 512. Mr. Winer and I discussed at length the problems I had, but since it was so long ago, I could not recall many of the actual details. I now believed that I may have been using a corrupted version of the system at the time on all three of the Macs that had problems. Thats a warning for people who use Resedit to modify the system. He did return my phone call the same day, and he assures me that there tech support team normally responds very quickly. My problem contacting them must have been a freak occurrence. It was during the week of the MacExpo show in Boston. However it did take me three phone calls to obtain a copy of the MacPlus compatible version of Think Tank. If there were a bug of the magnitude I described I am sure someone else on the net would have encountered it, or I would have heard about it from someone else in San Diego. The mail I have received about More has been very positive; however, I did receive one letter from some who said he had problems with More using a shared volume on MacServe. I also tried to obtain another copy of More to test, but the product is back ordered in San Diego I hope this clears up any misunderstandings. Now lets go back to discussing the Macintosh. -- David Whiteman, University of California, San Diego The America's Cup, don't leave Perth without it.
dbb@aicchi.UUCP (Burch) (10/06/86)
I downloaded Radical Castle, and it works fine. My kid loves it. -- -David B. (Ben) Burch Analysts International Corp. Chicago Branch (ihnp4!aicchi!dbb) "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours"