[net.misc] Agnostics on the net

rcj (01/15/83)

OK, I am all the time hearing articles from people on the net who say
they are agnostics.  Before someone jumps on me for being antagonistic
I think that I should let you know my view of the situation:

"I am sitting in a chair and typing on a terminal keyboard.  Unless I
am a net ai project and don't know it; this is real and therefore the
materials that make up these and other objects in my life had to come
from SOMEWHERE.  Thus, someone(s)/thing(s)/being(s)/entity(ies)/
other-cliche-with-the-same-meaning had to create it in the first place.
And that ENTITY/ENTITIES is/are:
'How the hell should I know?'"

I describe the belief so frivolously stated above (or lack of belief,
if you so desire), as agnosticism (i.e., I consider myself to be an
agnostic.)  What I want from all you other people out there is this:

Send me your definition of the word "agnostic".  You do not have to
consider yourself an agnostic to mail me your definition; neither
does your definition have to come from some definitive source.
I would appreciate it, however, if you would indicate in your mail
a) whether or not you consider yourself an agnostic ACCORDING TO THE
DEFINITION THAT YOU HAVE ENCLOSED, and
b) your source (IF PUBLISHED, DISTRIBUTED, i.e., not just from your
head or oral teachings) if such applies.

Results will be posted to net.misc; the more responses the more interesting
the results (hint, hint),

The MAD Programmer
alias:  Curtis Jackson	...!floyd!burl!rcj
			...!sb1!burl!rcj
			...!mhuxv!burl!rcj

mclure (01/18/83)

#R:burl:-3400:sri-unix:1300005:000:481
sri-unix!mclure    Jan 17 22:17:00 1983

It seems to me that an agnostic is best defined by simply looking at
the Greek: "one who does not know".  The agnostic simply does not know
whether a god exists but is willing to believe if suitable evidence
(other than scripture) appears.  I suppose this is a reasonable
definition for how I feel.  An atheist is perhaps too close-minded
about the subject.  A god could be anything from some general energy
field to nature to beings with vastly superior technology, etc.

	Stuart

cjp (01/18/83)

A theist is one who knows (believes, if you will) that god exists.
An agnostic is one who is not sure; who thinks that there is
	insufficient evidence to evaluate the existence of god.
An atheist is one who knows (believes, if you will) that god does not exist.

Theists will find out for sure that there is no god when they die;
Atheists will find out for sure that there is a god when the evidence
	shows up in this world.
Agnostics will never know.

There is no need to label any of these folks as "close minded".

	Charles

bts (01/19/83)

Why is there no term for those who find the question meaningless?

			Bruce Smith

lwall (01/22/83)

I think we should distinguish two kinds of agnostics:

   a)  Those who think there is insufficient evidence to evaluate the
       existence of God.

   b)  Those who hope there is insufficient evidence to evaluate the
       existence of God, but aren't interested in finding out because they
       think they are better off without Him regardless.

I think the vast majority of agnostics fall into category b.  The telltale
sign of a category b agnostic is that he wants God to perform some tricks
to prove Himself right now, while at the same time he refuses to consider
any of the historical evidence, which cannot help but take the form of
documents, which we shall undoubtedly be forced to label as "scripture".
I fear that Jesus had some rather severe things to say about people who
excused themselves on the basis of lack of evidence.  People tend both
to believe AND disbelieve not on any rational basis, but on an emotional
one.

				A somewhat rational believer,
				but afraid not to at least look for Him,
				Larry Wall

wargo (01/26/83)

I feel that you can always play it safe.
If you believe in God and it turns out that He does not exist you end
up just like everybody else dead. But if you refuse to believe in Him
and then come to find out that you were wrong.........
Dave

reid (01/28/83)

Re: Deists...

How could God create the universe, which is supposed to be infinite and all-
encompassing, and then *leave* ???  Where did He or She go, anyway???  
Otherwise, I like the idea.  Like Vonnegut:  God is supremely apathetic.

Glenn Reid

mmt (01/28/83)

In evaluating "historical" evidence for the existence of one or
more Gods, it would be well to consider the relative recency, volume,
and reliability of evidence for UFOs and extraterrestrial contact
with humanity. You should rely on evidence equally in respect of
each question. To my mind, the UFO evidence is at present stronger,
and I don't believe it.
		Martin Taylor
P.S. In each case, I reserve the right to change my state of belief
as more evidence accumulates.

paul (01/31/83)

What Dave Wargo referred to (it's safer to believe in God and be wrong than it
is to not believe and be wrong) is Pascal's wager, I believe.)