dir (02/15/83)
"I really find it hard to accept that ANYONE who is competent enough to use a computer system really believes in parapsychology." ... eagle!karn Karn's statement implies a. that people who use computers are competent (presumably intelligent, well-read, open-minded, etc.), b. that competent people would not believe in parapsychology because they are too smart, and c. that parapsychology is something that one believes in. Implication (a) is false: anyone can use a computer with sufficient instruction. Implication (b) is false: there is always someone smarter than you or I who will believe that some parapsychological phenomena are real. Implication (c) is false: parapsychology is a method of study, not a belief system. I wonder how many net readers would change their mind about ESP if 80% of the Nobel Prize winners expressed belief in ESP. We are swayed by scientific peer pressure to an amazing degree. D. Radin - Bell Labs Columbus
karn (02/16/83)
Regarding cbosg!dir's comments on ESP and parapsychology: "I really find it hard to accept that ANYONE who is competent enough to use a computer system really believes in parapsychology." ... eagle!karn Karn's statement implies a. that people who use computers are competent (presumably intelligent, well-read, open-minded, etc.), b. that competent people would not believe in parapsychology because they are too smart, and c. that parapsychology is something that one believes in. Implication (a) is false: anyone can use a computer with sufficient instruction. Agreed; I had second thoughts about this one as soon as I posted the article. Considering that more CPU cycles are spent these days on games than on all other uses combined, this is a very weak test for scientific competence. Perhaps I should have said "..competent enough to use netnews...", well, maybe not. Implication (b) is false: there is always someone smarter than you or I who will believe that some parapsychological phenomena are real. But for each person smarter than you or I who believe in parapsychology, I could probably find you ten who are dumber. In any event, an argument based solely on numbers of believers is worthless. "Reality" is independent of the number of people who engage in wishful thinking. The scientific method depends more on strict adherence to a set of rules designed to minimize the effects of human fallability (e.g., an emotional stake in the outcome.) Even smart people are subject to human failings from time to time. Implication (c) is false: parapsychology is a method of study, not a belief system. Given that parapsychology requires that rational, methodical research techniques be ignored (otherwise there would be little to study), there isn't much left besides unfounded beliefs. I wonder how many net readers would change their mind about ESP if 80% of the Nobel Prize winners expressed belief in ESP. We are swayed by scientific peer pressure to an amazing degree. The number of believers would not sway me. A large number of independent, rigorously conducted double-blind experiments, with open scrutiny and publication of the techniques and results, showing conclusive evidence of psi WOULD sway me. So far this hasn't happened; when it does, I'll believe. Perhaps PSI research SHOULD be funded and continued; it provides an insight into the fallibilities of the human mind that cannot be obtained in any other way. Phil Karn
trb (02/16/83)
Re: people who are too smart to believe in what they don't understand Well, ya see, when we want to make babies we go out and buy all the raw materials, and then we have all these complicated manufacturing processes to produce the different organs on assembly lines. The Japanese do it with robots, but we use mostly manual labor. Then we put 'em all together and of course we do all these quality assurance tests on 'em to make sure we have the finest product available... Sounds credible enough. There is a great deal of wondrous truth which I don't understand, even more that I couldn't understand even if I tried. Andy Tannenbaum Bell Labs Whippany, NJ (201) 386-6491
ka (02/16/83)
Radin is nit-picking. a) Users of computers are *generally* intelligent. The claim that "anyone can use a computer with sufficient instruction" may be true for *some* definitions of "use." b) I don't know of any data showing who believes in parapsychology, but it seems reasonable (to me) to assume that anyone who believes in parapsychology lacks the ability to evaluate its claims, and thus is *likely* have limited abilities to accomplish other intellectual tasks. c) Parapsychology is not a "method of study" by any definition *I* have ever encountered. Perhaps it is a "field of study", but many people seem to treat it as a "belief system." Yes, I might change my mind about ESP if 80% of the Nobel Prize winners believed in ESP. This is not "peer pressure". I rely on the statements of others for all of my information about this subject; thus if other people's opinions change, naturally mine will also. Kenneth Almquist