lseward@randvax.UUCP (Larry Seward) (10/06/84)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 84 08:21 EDT
From: Richard Pavelle <RP%TENEX.SCRC.Symbolics@rand-unix>
Subject: Setting the record straight on MACSYMA
Received: by rand-unix.ARPA; Sun, 30 Sep 84 21:11:50 pdt
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From: lanl-a!jlg@rand-unix
Newsgroups: net.math.symbolic
Subject: $15k for MACSYMA
Message-Id: <13960@lanl-a.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 27-Sep-84 10:47:42 PDT
Article-I.D.: lanl-a.13960
Posted: Thu Sep 27 10:47:42 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Sep-84 08:36:33 PDT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
$15K seems especially out of line when you remember that Symbolics didn't
even write the code! The VAX version was written and maintained at Berkeley.
MACSYMA was designed and developed at MIT (much of it was government funded
through DOE and others). Most of the coding for MACSYMA was done by
graduate students, DOE scientists, and faculty; few of whom benefit from
the sale of the code. In fact, the only version which Symbolics wrote was
the one which runs on their Lisp Machine.
Let me set the record straight. MIT, through their licensing agent,
Arthur D. Little, approached Symbolics in 1982 to have MACSYMA widely
distributed, supported and enhanced. Both MIT and the Regents of the
University of California receive very substantial royalties from
Symbolics for commercial VAX MACSYMA sales. The 15K$ price reflects the
cost of maintenance and distribution only. At least one other algebra
package is priced at nearly three times the price of MACSYMA.
I don't blame Symbolics for this mess. I would probably sell MACSYMA for
$15K myself, if someone declared me to be the authorized vendor. This was
in litigation for some time and there was a strong case for declaring the
code to be public domain. In fact, before Symbolics was licensed as
vendor, the VAX version of the code was available from Berkeley (for
government and educational institutions only) for a tape copy fee ($200 or
$500 I think). Berkeley favored the position that the code should be
public domain. Too bad they didn't prevail.
We have put a great deal of effort into the VAX version of MACSYMA here at
Symbolics. I am not saying that the Symbolics version is perfect by
any means but it is getting better. On the whole commercial, government
and university users seem very happy with MACSYMA and feel it is well
worth the price. The Berkeley version was NOT a commercial product and
was UNSUPPORTED.
Nothing involving MACSYMA has ever been in litigation. Nobody in
authority has claimed that MACSYMA is in the public domain. Berkeley
has never favored the position that MACSYMA should be in the public
domain. On the contrary, Berkeley sought and the Regents now receive
substantial royalties from Symbolics for commercial sales of MACSYMA on
the VAX. Symbolics is pleased to support the educational and research
programs of the University of California in this way.
Also, $15K is the price per machine - no site wide licenses are available
from Symbolics. However, substantial discounts are available for
educational institutions (still for individual machines only). Symbolics
charges an additional fee for a maintenance contract (one year).
This is not correct. $15K is the commercial price on the VAX. There is a
substantial discount to government, about 60%, and currently universities
can get MACSYMA from us for $500. There is a discount for multiple CPUs
and site wide licenses ARE available.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Giles
jlg@lanl-a
...!inhp4!cmcl2!lanl-a!jlg