debray (04/16/83)
Maybe this is something that should go into netiquette, too:
From (*----*) Fri Apr 15 00:30:04 1983
Subject: Re: re: baby formula - (nf)
Newsgroups: net.misc
...
#R:mhuxt:-6600:hp-pcd:6400017:000:32
hp-pcd!courtney Apr 14 07:59:00 1983
I agree with you point about ZZ
When posting a followup, please, please, PLEASE give enough information
about the article you're following up, so that the rest of us have *some*
inkling as to what on earth it is that you're agreeing/disagreeing/flaming
about. If this is too much trouble, please don't post the article!
Saumya K. Debray
... {peri!, allegra!} sbcs!debraygrunwald (04/27/83)
#R:sbcs:-27700:uiucdcs:10600098:000:1076
uiucdcs!grunwald Apr 26 12:32:00 1983
re: use of notesfiles and structuring net junk
I agree with Ray, not just because he's my office mate and would probably
lock me out if I didn't, but because I used PLATO for about 6 years before
moving to a UNIX environment.
When I first got here, I tried to use "news". Bad deal. Very bad. I found
it very difficult to use -- there was no pagination, articles weren't
associated with each other and so on.
When I started using Notes, I wondered why everyone on the net didn't use
it (resources aside). The structure it gives the net is much nicer than the
linear order of readnews.
Also, I'd like to point out that the statistics that Ray mentioned come from
only ONE plato system, serving about 1000 terminals. Control data has about
15 other plato systems in the world, and they serve many many users -- all of
whom use notesfile quite a lot.
Also, from a historical point of view -- PLATO used to have something like
"readnews", but around '74 or so they developed the notesfile interface.
Dirk ("testimonial") Grunwald
pur-ee ! uiucdcs ! grunwaldignatz (04/29/83)
Pardonnez moi, but all of this one-notesfiles-using-PLATO-system-generates-X thousand-articles-a-day-and-that's-more-than-all-of-USENET-so-there is bunk. PLATO does *not* run on a minicomputer. Correct me if I'm wrong (silly me...of course...you guys wouldn't miss the chance!), but most machines running UNIX are minis, with a few micros lurking in the background as plain uucp sites. (Yes, you, Lauren!). I haven't had the pleasure of using notesfiles, but I've seen the interface in use by others, and yes, it's better. But the thing is a pig. A solution that works on a CDC Cyber 7 (or whatever PLATO considers its brain these days--it's still certainly a mainframe) will most likely not be acceptable on a mini-based UNIX system; in fact, it isn't even so great on an IBM 3033-based UNIX! Just as an aside, I'm amazed and a little concerned at the number of young grads (Huh? Gramps? Oh, well, I'm 29, and I've been out 'in the real world' for about 7 years. Yes, a recent grad is young.)(*my lumbago!*) who've never worked on mainframes, and devoutly maintain that "anything a mainframe could do, can be done by my micro" and "UNIX does it all". This attitude is reflected in the simple comparison of a PLATO-based system and a UNIX-based system on the grounds of the volume of notes. NO, Virginia, a mainframe and a mini don't compare. NO, Virginia, UNIX doesn't do it all. It's dandy for what it was designed to be, but that isn't everything to everybody; which is what most mainframe OS try to be. Granted, the code is often a nightmare, and bugs are often as easy to track and zap as roaches in a Chicago tenement; but the things do more, faster, than minis. Look at simple old UNIX when ported to the IBM; it's already grown warts and sacks to deal with design deficiencies that surface when dealing with the greater resources of a mainframe. I think mainframes as we know them are a dying lot; but not because a mini like the VAX will do them in. I think network technology and techniques, coupled with increasingly faster hardware, will allow a network of minis to perform as a mainframe with infinitely variable power. But for now, a single mainframe will almost always be able to outperform a single mini with respect to volume of throughput, computing power, and speed. (Unless they point out an egregious error, unique and exceptional counter-examples to the bit bucket.) Please consider software performance in light of the support environment, eh? "I ain't religious, but a human's gotta preach sometimes..." Dave Ihnat ihuxx!ignatz
tihor (04/30/83)
#R:sbcs:-27700:cmcl2:7500001:000:427 cmcl2!tihor Apr 29 22:36:00 1983 This is piece by ignatz is a moderately interesting piece of rambling philosphy but I don't see how relevant it is to the discussion of notes vs. news. I use and prefer the notes file interface to news. The numbers of notes was originally brought up as an arguemnt that this interface mechanism was a good one, not a proof that a Cyber 700 or 800 series mainframe or supermidi can shovel more s*** than a pile of 3B20s.