info-mac@uw-beaver (02/28/85)
From: Moderator John Mark Agosta <INFO-MAC-REQUEST@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
INFO-MAC Digest Wednesday, 27 Feb 1985 Volume 2 : Issue 7
Today's Topics:
C Compilers: A Comparison
MacPaint utilities
How does MacDraw use the PICT resource, and selecting objects?
Microsoft word
Printer descriptions for Microsoft Word
Mac Mice
Hyperdrive
RAM prices
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 85 23:06:26 pst
From: hamachi%ucbkim@Berkeley (Gordon Hamachi)
Subject: C Compilers: A Comparison
Attention would-be compiler buyers. Here are the results from my
informal survey of C compilers for the Macintosh. At the Macworld
Expo this weekend I went from booth to booth, running the same
benchmark through each vendor's compiler.
The benchmark was the sieve program as published in Byte magazine,
August 1983. The benchmark did not use register variables. The
"Size" entry in the table refers the the size in bytes of the a.out
resulting from compiling the sieve program. The "Small" entry shows
the size of the a.out for the trivial program main(){printf("Hello,
world.\n");}. This gives a measure of the incremental size of the
code produced by the compiler.
Vendor Memory Disk Compile Link Load+Run Run Size Small
===========================================================================
Megamax 512K Floppy 7.9 71 13.0 6.6 5484 5276 Megamax 512K Corvus Omni
2.7 23 9.2 6.6 5484 5276
Softworks 128K Floppy 77.4 111.9 15.8 8.8 34560 26368
Consulair 512K HyperDrive 19.2 14.5 15.2 8.0 10496 10240
Hippo 2 512K Ram Disk 11.6 8.8 14.1 --- 13864 ---
Note that no two vendors had the same hardware configuration. It is
hard to make comparisons because of these hardware differences. I
assume that a RAM disk is faster than the HyperDrive, which is faster
than the Corvus Omni, which is faster than the floppy. How much
faster? I've written to the companies to see if they will send me
software for further analysis.
Run times were measured with the stopwatch on my digital wrist watch.
I'd like to redo this using the tickcount() function from the Mac
toolbox.
Manx Aztec C was not in attendance. Too bad.
Megamax looks pretty good in every category except linking time. It
compiles like the proverbial bat out of hell. I don't see linking
time as a problem as you win big in the size of the resulting a.out
file. Theirs is the only linker that throws out routines it doesn't
need. If only you could selectively turn that optimization on and
off. Softworks uses the Apple (Consulair) linker. I forget, maybe
Hippo does too. They go directly from source to object, with no
intermediate assembly step. It is fast, but you can't look at asm
code except by disassembling.
On the other hand, I found a couple of bugs in the Megamax compiler.
Remember when you read this that I spent more time with this compiler
than any of the others, so don't jump to any conclusions.
The Softworks compiler seemed a bit more complicated to use. It has
built-in optimization that you can't turn off. On the other hand,
unlike the Megamax compiler, you can look at an intermediate assembly
language file and even munge around with it. Some quirks of
Softworks: You MUST have at least one global variable, and that
global variable must be initialized at compile time. Every line must
be terminated by a carriage return. It is a compiler error if the
last line ends in a '}'. My impression is one of killing a gnat with
an atom bomb. It is a port of the Whitesmith C compiler. Does this
mean that it is a "real" compiler, capable of gracefully handling
mammoth programs?
Consulair has the most Mac-like user interface. It seemed slick and
the easiest to use. Better performance may be on the way--code
optimization and floating point are planned for mid April. Originally
this release was planned to be much earlier. Bill DuVall's wife said
that Bill has been tied up putting the finishing touches on the Apple
MDS package. Their booth seemed to get a LOT of attention. It was
hardest to get near this booth, let alone run a benchmark.
Hippo had a unix-like interface. The prompt was even a percent sign.
Many of the expected commands like "ls" and "rm" were there. You
compile by typing "cc" followed by command line arguments. You exit
to the finder by typing "logout". There's a certain appeal to this
kind of environment. I'd like to use it for a few days and then
decide which is better. Let's face it, the easiest to use systems
make you select a file from a scrolling dialog box, but if the file
you want isn't visible in the window, it is clumsy and annoying to
scroll the window in search of the file.
All the vendors were helpful and friendly. The folks at Softworks and
at Hippo seemed more distracted (burned-out?) than the others.
Consulair and Megamax seemed the most lively and helpful with my
evaluation project.
Not to leave anyone out, I talked to a guy who swears by the Aztec C
compiler from Manx.
Please use these numbers for comparison only. Your mileage will
differ, and may be less. Some weaknesses with my evaluation:
Non-uniform hardware. Only one small program, no "real sized" ones.
Timing was a bit sloppy, and tended to include the time to load a
program. Thus, compilers generating big a.out files tend to run
slower by my way of measuring.
My best advice is to try as many of these compilers as possible and
draw your own conclusions. Or, hope that all vendors send me
evaluation copies, and watch this space for future announcements.
If anyone knows of a Macintosh C compiler I've left out, please tell
me their name and address.
- --Gordon Hamachi
------------------------------
Date: Sun 24 Feb 85 16:03:54-PST
From: PIERCE@SRI-KL.ARPA
Subject: MacPaint utilities
MacPaint Info --
There have been a number of requests of the net
for information on clipping wide regions onto the
clipboard for transfer to MacWrite. I know of two
that can be used, one now and one in the future.
The first is to use a program called
"Thunderscan". Yes, this is part of the hardware
product that scans images using the imagewriter
printer, but the software is stand-alone. It has
the square selection region, just like MacPaint,
except it will scroll to include a larger area than
the screen (just like MacWrite scrolls at the bottom
of the page). You can then copy / cut to the
clipboard.
This software also has other additions to
MacPaint. When you move with the hand and release
the mouse the picture can keep sliding across the
screen (depending on the velocity of the mouse when
the button is released) ... Very Nice! (Obviously
the entire picture is in memory at all times -- I
believe even on the 128K machine.) Also there is a
high density print function that makes the picture
25% size. (I don't know if this is better than the
Imagewriter 15 reducing feature.)
All this is great if it were free, it was given to
our user group for free by the author (Andy
Hertzfeld). Thunderscan's main income is from the
hardware, so they might be willing to sell the
software cheap... it certainly is worth it!
One of the authors of MacDraw spoke at our users
group meeting (A32 in San Jose, CA) and said 1) he
did the rewrite for MacPaint to work on the 512K, 2)
he was writing a utility to select larger regions.
Obviously it is not yet out, but it is on the way.
If what you are trying to clip can be done in
MacDraw, you can use ANY size clipregion (up to
94"x48"). Of course when you paste it into MacWrite
it is reduced to a single page.
-----------------------------------
Rotation, Perspective and Stretching in MacPaint!!
I finally saw a MacPaint accessory I have to have!
It is put out by ClickArt, it is a desk accessory.
You select it and all the palettes of MacPaint
disappear and four new icons appear in the corner
(similar to MacPaint's). It uses the same window as
MacPaint, the same selection style. So you select
the "Rotate" icon, draw a box around what you want to
rotate, grab a corner with the mouse and pull -- any
arbitrary degree (shift key down and only in 5 degree
increments). Not very fast in the redraw, but a
minor penalty.
You can do the same with stretch, perspective, and
Distorted. It costs $49.95, is not write protected
(which means I go out of my way to pay for it.) It
was being shown at MacExpo in February and there is
an advertisement in the March MacWorld on page 20. I
have a prerelease copy of the software and have been
playing with to for a month or so. Nothing wrong
with the software that I can find. I am really
impressed with the integration with the existing
MacPaint. (ClickArt; T/Maker Graphics; 2115 Landings
Drive; Mountain View, CA 94043 415/962-0195)
- ----------------------------
Last - the latest version of MacPaint I have seen is
version 1.42.
Jerry Pierce Pierce@SRI-KL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 85 14:06:59 est
From: "Mark N. Hume" <mnh@utcsri>
Subject: How does MacDraw use the PICT resource, and selecting
Subject: objects?
I am trying to determine the format of PICT resources and how MacDraw
in particular picks apart the commands therein. I would like to take
a PICT resource from MacDraw and use it in a program I am writing
(mainly because for now, I don't want to have to write the drawing
code myself). Does MacDraw use Picture comments to determine the
objects in a PICT?
When MacDraw does find out the pict structure, what kind of data
structure does it store the objects in? Any ideas?
Another question I have is whether there is an easy way of telling
what objects a user has selected on the screen. So far the only way I
have thought of is by comparing the point of selection (or rectangle
of selection) to every single object (actually, the rectangle
enclosing the object, since for now my objects cannot overlap). Is
there a more intelligent (faster/easier) way.
Thanks for any help, Mark Hume
------------------------------
Date: Thu 21 Feb 85 08:44:03-PST
From: Mark Richer <RICHER@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
Subject: Microsoft word
So far I've been pretty pleased with the WORD. Saving and printing are
still slow though (and so is repaginating), but all in all it's pretty
quick especially when the whole document is in core (512K makes the
day). It lacks some features but does all the basic things like
nesting paragraphs.
Comment : It doesn't seem to allow you to paste boxes (ctrl chars)
into a change box which is essential if you XMODEM a text file from
tops-20. I did manage to get rid of the boxes in MacWrite and then
convert it to a word file, but that's a pain
Problem : When I print the margin is a 1/4 inch less than what I
indicate in the page setup dialogue. I have the perforation edge
lined up with the red line on the printer bar which works perfectly
with MacWrite. I don't remember if there was any mention about how to
line up paper, but I am beginning to suspect Microsoft might have a
different idea then the MacWrite people. Anyone know about this?
mark
------------------------------
Date: 21 February 1985 01:58-EST
From: Michael C. Adler <MADLER @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Printer descriptions for Microsoft Word
Does anybody know the data format of Microsoft Word printer
description files? I want to set an Epson LQ1500 up as a "daisy"
proportional spaced printer while I wait for/decide to write a printer
driver for it.
Thanks,
-Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 85 17:39 EST
From: DSnyder.henr
Subject: Mac Mice
I'm looking into alternative mouse-alikes for the Mac and would like
any info anybody's got. I know about TurboTouch (bleeech), and that
Mouse Systems (I believe) announced a one button optical mouse. I
think I saw something somewhere about a mouse by LogiTech too. Are
there others?
How about interfaces for Microsoft's 3-button optical, Xerox's
2-button optical, or Hawley mechnicals? Who else makes mice? Do
these companies make their own mice?
There was something on this list a long time ago about hooking up a
3-button mouse by sending serial pulses for single, double, and triple
clicks. Anyone remember what it said?
I'd also like to know exactly what the existing mouse interface is. I
assume it's some simple serial protocol. Anybody know which pin does
what?
Thanks. I'll summarize and post all replies.
David
------------------------------
Date: 21 Feb 1985 09:48-CST
From: ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx:sphinx!supp@uw-beaver.arpa (Steve
From: Upp,Staff 002,53971,,staf)
Subject: Hyperdrive
Yesterday at our local Mac users group a sales representative and
engineer from General Computing Inc. presented the Hyperdrive. (The
Hyperdrive is the new 10 MB internal hard disk drive for the
Macintosh). The drive comes with quite a bit of very interesting
software, including volume management, volume password protection,
individual file password protection, and backup utilities. The drive
is of course very very fast and really enhances the capabilities of a
Macintosh. (I'm sold) however.....
What has been your experience with the product? I'm interested
primarily in hardware reliability and servicing difficulties.
We are considering distributing this product through our micro "store"
and were wondering what comments people have concerning GCI's support
to their venders? Do they answer questions etc....
We are members of the Apple University Consortium and would be
interested in hearing from othrer schools who have already begun
dealing with GCI.
Any comments at all would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
- --
Steve Upp University of Chicago Computation Center
ARPA: Staff.Steve%UChicago.mailnet@Mit-Multics.arpa
Bitnet: supp%sphinx@UChicago.bitnet
Mailnet: Staff.Steve@UChicago.mailnet
UUCP: ...!ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!supp
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1985 16:21-EST
From: Kevin.Dowling@CMU-RI-ROVER.ARPA
Subject: RAM prices
If you've been watching the prices for the 256K DRAM's for the past
few weeks you have seen a tremendous drop in prices. The price for a
150ns 256Kx1 DRAM are currently $8.99!! (quantity one)
Thus the 16 needed for an upgrade now totals about $144.00 For those
useing the MassTech upgrade (as opposed to DJJ) the total cost is
about $300 for the 512K upgrade. (i.e. you buy and send the RAMS)
256K x 1 150ns DRAM prices, quantity 1. Each c = 0.50 $
16 Feb $69.00 5 Mar $59.50 17 Apr Too many c's to show! $48.99 29 Jun
$39.37 17 Sep
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc$34.34
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $22.47 10 Nov
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $21.97 12 Nov
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $18.77 19 Nov
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $18.47 26 Nov
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $17.47
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $14.99 10 Dec
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $14.99 17 Dec
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc $14.99
cccccccccccccccccccccccccc $12.79
cccccccccccccccccccccc $10.95 11 Feb
cccccccccccccccccccc $ 9.75 18 Feb
cccccccccccccccccc $8.99
nivek Arpanet:
nivek@cmu-ri-rover Bell: (412) 578-8830 USmail: Robotics Institute
CMU
Schenley Park
Pgh, PA 15213
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End of INFO-MAC Digest
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