j@utah-cs.UUCP (11/23/84)
Yesterday I was reminded of the feeling which most children have when they
learn that Sant Claus is nonexistent.
A group of friends took me to see 'Raveen' at the Capitol Theatre here in
Salt Lake City. An overwhelming stack of evidence convinced me that this guy
hypnotized nobody throughout his entire show. A few things that come to my
mind are:
1) After he had 'sorted out' those which 'were not in the super-
conscious state', *all* of his suggestions were followed precisely
as he described (with the actors adding minor improvisations now
and then).
2) Some of the actors were obviously more experienced and convincing
than others. In particular, one guy, who was told to act like a
very old man playing his banjo, had troubles with his spoken line
(which sounded like a part of a prepared script), and looked like
he was trying hard not to laugh at his own act. Another actor,
apparently more experienced, seemed to steal the show by usually
'hamming it up' to a greater extent than the others. (At one
time he was told by Raveen that he was Lassie {the dog}, and
pretended to do the sort of thing that dogs do near fire hydrants.)
3) When a group of 'hypnotized' people were all asked to do the same
thing, they did the task in curiously similar manners. Although
the English language is comprehensive enough to convey their
instructions, I would be inclined to think that their individual
imaginations would interpret the instructions more differently
than they did on stage (their *were* closed while they received
the instructions).
4) One of my friends had seen the show just 4 days before I saw it,
and recognized about 6 of the 20 or 30 people that were chosen to
act. She (my friend) said that they received free tickets, and
must have wanted to be hypnotized again. I doubt it.
Perhaps that was enough to give you an idea of the indications that I
spoke of. My questions for the net are these:
o All of the others in my group actually believed that some of those
had been hypnotized. Now I myself believe in hypnotism, but not in
this *theatrical* hypnotism (albeit, I must say that I was mildly
entertained at times). Have any of you actually been hypnotized
on stage? (thus indicating that I may be wrong)
o I was called 'skeptical' by my friends. Are there actually that
many people in our civilization that are so naive and gullible as
to believe this sort of hypnotism theatrics? (if so, perhaps I
can use this knowledge to make some bucks; I'm only 19 right now)
As I mentioned above, I see no reason that theatrical hypnotism cannot
be regarded as magic shows are, and thus be entertaining. It's just that I
used to believe (when I was about 8; the last time before yesterday when I
saw a similar show) that people were being hypnotized on stage.
Enlightenedly yours,
Gary L. Crum oper.crum@utah-20.arpa
University of Utah Computer Science Department decvax!utah-cs!crumderek2@garfield.UUCP (Derek S Keeping) (11/26/84)
I have seen 'Raveen' twice, both times with different groups. I'm
no great fan of Theatrical Hypnosis, however I do find it entertaining
on occasion.
As to whether or not the subjects were actually hypnotised I can't say
first-hand as I was never hypnotised. However on both occasions I have
seen the show a member of the group has gone on stage and been apparently
hypnotised. On the first occasion the person was just a friend so I suppose
she could quite possibly be covering up. However the person at the second
show is now my fiance, and I would be very surprised if she covered up
something like that to me.
Also it is true that people get free passes to return to the show after
being hypnotised. The reason being that they are supposed to be able to
watch the show instead of taking part. However I would guess that if
the suggestions given at the end of the show actually take hold there
would at least a mild compulsion to return to the stage instead of
watching the show. Which is certainly a bonus for 'Raveen' as he has
what could be considered a reliable subject who very probably will
return to appear in future shows. Again as evidence I offer my fiance
who claims to have taken part in five shows over several tours without
once sitting in the audience.
In case I seem totally unquestioning I will point out that there
are some remarkable similarities between what you mention of
the show you saw. In particular the dog episode. It may well be that
the joke is a part of subconsious behavior and most people will do
that sort of thing if commanded to act like a dog. Not being an expert
I couldn't say. However what seems more likely to me is that 'Raveen'
has a group of people planted in the audience to fill out the group
if there are too few subjects, and to add entertainment if the show
starts to get to dull. I also seem to recall hearing somewhere that
if a group of people are told to act as if they are hypnotised and
carrying on with the show the majority would do so. Any pointers or
comments on this?
Finally I must say that I find the first part of the show totally inane.
On the two occasions that I saw the show he completed a magic square
and performed a knights tour. Relativly simple problems once the method
is learned. Yet there were people in the audience cheering him on
and applauding each move. If people are willing to pay money to see
people do things like this maybe there is a small fortune to be made
out there.
Derek S. Keeping.
{allegra,inhp4,utcsrgv}!garfield!derek2nazgul@apollo.uucp (Kee Hinckley) (11/26/84)
<you are very sleepy...>
I don't know about 'Raveen', but I saw Russ Burgess when I was in school
(Bates College, ME), and I can guarantee that he was not using actors.
Bates isn't a large school, and I knew most all of the people that he
put under, and I spoke to them afterwards. They were DEFINITELY hypnotized.
People also tend to improvise while under, and others may fade in and out
if they arn't totally under, thus the 'bad actor' impression. Some, on
the other hand, accept it totally. Some samples:
o He told several people to forget their names. Then he went to each
one and asked them for their name, while joking with the others about
the fact that this person couldn't remember it. The others joked
and laughed, and agreed that it was silly, but when asked for their
names they would just stand there with a puzzled look on their face
and stutter.
o He told one person that whenever he (Russ) rubbed his nose they should
chastize him for doing such an obscene thing in public. Then he
told her to forget that she had been put under, and sent her back
to the audience. Sure enough, whenever he rubbed his nose, she would
stand up, in the middle of a crowded gymnasium, and berate him for
being so disgusting, while all around her everyone else was in
hysterics.
o He gave someone else a post-hypnotic suggestion that there was
a great blizzard coming and that he was to direct us all to the
buses for safety as soon as Russ said "Bates College". Right
on cue the guy rushed up, took the mike away from Burgess and tried
to persuade us all to leave. It wasn't until he started getting
very upset and confused because we were ignoring him, that Burgess
put him out of his misery by releasing the suggestion.
o He sent his subjects on a trip to the moon, where they wandered
around and met a little green man. (Here is a perfect example
of improvization). One girl (with no prompting at all) came up
to him:
Girl: I think he likes me.
Russ: Why do you think that?
Girl: (pointing to the top of her blouse) He just crawled in.
o He told the subjects that the entire audience had just lost their
clothes. The reactions were pretty amazing. Some people just
gawked. Others turned bright red and looked the other way. I
spoke to one person afterwards who said that she didn't really
SEE them all naked, she just KNEW that they were; with the exception
of those whom she had seen naked before. Those people she SAW as
being naked.
There were a lot of other scenarios, most of which were equally hillarious.
He also did some "mentalism" tricks which were open to scepticism. However,
if you ever get a chance I highly reccommend him. He puts on an excelent show
and you can be assured that he has not rigged his subjects.
-kee
...decvax!wivax!apollo!nazguldxp@pyuxhh.UUCP (D Peak) (11/28/84)
I've only once seen a stage hypnotist, and that was 7 years ago on the
QE II from NY to Southampton. I'm afraid I don't recall the hypnotists
name and only one of his subjects sticks out in my mind.
The hypnotists initially called upon a dozen volunteers, he dismissed
about 4 or 5 as being unasuitable.
The subject was a recent high school graduate from a school in the
Baltimore area(apperently this trip is a school tradition). The young
man was "put under" and told he was a plank of wood. He was then put
across two chairs, his feet were on one chair and his head was on the
other chair. His body was extremely straight and appeared to be supported
only by the two chairs. The hypnotists "lovely assistant" then sat on his
stomach.
The act was performed in the middle of a dance floor, so people were
viewing the act from all angles.
Until seeing this act I had NO faith in hypnosis or hypnotists but
since then I'm not so sure.
Talking to the young man later in the cruise he stated that he couldn't
remember anything about the act.
--
Dave Peak (pyuxhh!dxp)
"He's a legend in his own mind"rene@tove.UUCP (Rene Steiner) (11/28/84)
I once saw a hypnotism demonstration at Georgetown Univiversity. It had the typical stuff about forgetting names and seeing imaginary red balls and going to the beach, all of which could have been acting, I guess. However, I was really impressed when he told one girl she was a board. She stiffened up with an arched back and sort of quivered. The hypnotist and a helper leaned her over and picked her up and set her like a board across a gap between two tables, the back of her head on one and the heels on her shoes on the others. She just stayed there, arched like a bridge, even when they put a backpack full of books on her stomach.j My mother is really against hypnotism, because she says although it usually is ok, you can never really tell what will happen with a given individual. She said she saw a demonstration in college where the guy had several people come up on stage (hypnotized). He gave them empty glasses and told them it had really a really strong drink in it, and they were to drink it and get drunk. It worked fine, until he gave them the "antidote" that would instantly make them sober. Only one guy was still drunk, but they couldn't get him out of it. Finally the hypnotist told his friends to take him home and he would sleep it off. Now, this man was studying to be a priest, and was a teetotaler. No one knows why he stayed drunk, and what effect it would have on his life. Maybe it was nothing, but maybe it was really traumatic. Things like that make hypnotism something to be careful about. Yes, I've heard that you can't be made to do anything against your will, but you CAN be convinced that something is necessary ( - that's a really evil man. He has to be killed so that he won't hurt anyone else ... or - the building's on fire! You have to jump out of the window to get away!). I've also heard that self-hypnotism can be really helpful in studying, losing weight, etc. Anyone had any personal experience? - rene -- rene@tove My opinions are my own, and no one can take them away from me!!!
nrh@inmet.UUCP (12/03/84)
The "stiff as a board" trick, where someone supports themselves at (I think) neck and ankles is something any ordinary person can do.
liberte@uiucdcs.UUCP (12/25/84)
/* Written 11:24 am Nov 27, 1984 by nazgul@apollo in uiucdcs:net.sci */
I don't know about 'Raveen', but I saw Russ Burgess when I was in school
(Bates College, ME), and I can guarantee that he was not using actors.
Bates isn't a large school, and I knew most all of the people that he
put under, and I spoke to them afterwards. They were DEFINITELY hypnotized.
...
/* End of text from uiucdcs:net.sci */
From the description, I also saw the Russ Bergess show - twice. It was
entertaining. And I agree, in this case, it was hypnosis. (I dont
understand how people can not believe hypnotism is possible. ESP, I can
understand - it's not "accepted" yet.)
My reason for writing is that I wish to warn people of the danger of
hypnosis. I am not talking about the "against your will" problem.
It is easy to imagine that even a "sober" person can be convinced to
do something that would be against their will if they gave it a
second thought.
But hypnosis is more that just being convinced to do someone else's will. It
is a state of mind where you, I submit, give up your body to some extent for
the hypnotist's use. The deeper the hypnosis, the less control you have
over your body. I realize this appears to be a dualistic view of the
mind-body relationship. It is more complex than that.
Furthermore, once you have been hypnotized by another person and return to
a non-hypnotic state, there remains a psychic connection between you and
the hypnotist as well as a susceptibility to future hypnosis. This could
be used beneficially, and it usually is benign, but I wouldnt risk it
in any case.
Many preachers (and perhaps teachers) are using hypnotic methods unknowingly
to instill their message. TV has hypnotic effects. I believe the general
American populace is more susceptible to hypnosis, if not mildly hypnotized,
as a result.
The danger: Some politically powerful person could easily manipulate the
people through the media for not so nice ends. Sound familiar? Let's not
get into it here.
Before you flame, let me qualify my comments. I dont KNOW these things
are true. But do you KNOW they are not possible? YOU have to find out.
(Groooan)
Daniel LaLiberte (ihnp4!uiucdcs!liberte)
U of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, Computer Science
{moderation in all things - including moderation}