info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (04/27/84)
Date: Thursday, 26 April 1984 00:12:24 EST
From: uw-beaver!Tom.Wood@cmu-ri-fas.arpa
To: Danny Mailman <dsm@rice.arpa>
Cc: info-mac@sumex-aim.arpa
Subject: Re: May/June issue of MacWorld--Japanese/Chinese character sets
In-Reply-To: <46.dsm.Tethys@Rice>
Sorry for the delay--been swamped with mail, among other things.
In fact, the MacWorld article does have a little bit to say about
Japanese character sets (reprinted here w/o permission) . . .
"The first international delivery of Macs will be to the U.K., Germany,
France, Italy, and Australia. The second international delivery will be to
Holland, Spain, Switzerland, Belgium, and Latin America. Languages that
don't use the Roman alphabet, such as Japanese, Arabic, and Hebrew, require
much deeper reworking of the Mac. [Alain] Rossman [product manager of
international Mac team] remarks, `The Japanese version presents a dual
problem. First, we have to make the machine capable of an 8000-character
set. There will have to be changes in the hardware inside the machine.
Then we'll need to design a keyboard capable of accepting that huge
character set. We will also have the task of translating all the
documentation and software.'
"Rossman admits that it's going to take a lot of work to get the Japanese
version out: `Remember, it will be the first time that Japanese people type.
There is no standard for that task because all business communication in
Japan is handwritten.' He estimates that Japanese Macs will be available in
six to ten months.
"The changes necessary for the Arabic and Hebrew versions should be less
extreme since the character sets of those languages are a standard size.
Still, problems must be worked out, such as changing the machine to read and
write text from right to left as is characteristic of Hebrew and Arabic."
-Tom Wood
(taw@cmu-ri-fas)info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (04/27/84)
Date: 26 April 1984 14:43-EST
From: John G. Aspinall <uw-beaver!JGA@MIT-MC>
Subject: May/June issue of MacWorld--Japanese/Chinese character sets
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM
In-Reply-To: Msg of 26 Apr 1984 00:12:24 EST from Tom.Wood at cmu-ri-fas.arpa
Date: Thursday, 26 April 1984 00:12:24 EST
From: Tom.Wood at cmu-ri-fas.arpa
In fact, the MacWorld article does have a little bit to say about
Japanese character sets (reprinted here w/o permission) . . .
"Rossman admits that it's going to take a lot of work to get the Japanese
version out: `Remember, it will be the first time that Japanese people type.
There is no standard for that task because all business communication in
Japan is handwritten.' He estimates that Japanese Macs will be available in
six to ten months.
" the first time that Japanese people type " ??!?
" all business communication in Japan is handwritten " ??!?
If Apple really believes this, they ought to be laughed out of the
country. JISCII (yes, like ASCII), which has been around since the
mid-sixties, provides a machine-readable representation of the
phonetic alphabet (kana) of 50 or so characters. Telegrams and the
like are customarily sent in kana, for instance.
If you desire to access the 8000 odd pictographs (kanji), one can
specify them through their (1, 2, or 3 kana, usually) phonetic
equivalent. To "type" kanji, you type the kana, then select from the
(usually a small number) of kanji that are offered by the interface.
While this second stage of conversion cries out for innovative user
interfaces, there is no shortage of work in this area.
Mr. Rossman should run, not walk, to the nearest library and find out
a little about the country in which he wants to sell his product.
John Aspinall.info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (04/27/84)
Date: 26 Apr 84 16:41:05 PST From: uw-beaver!SChen.pa@XEROX.ARPA Subject: Re: May/June issue of MacWorld--Japanese/Chinese character sets To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA In-Reply-To: Tom.Wood@CMU-RI-FAS.ARPA's message of 26 Apr 84 00:12:24 EST Cc: Star^.es@XEROX.ARPA, JStarUsers^.es@XEROX.ARPA, CStarUsers^.pa@XEROX.ARPA Reply-To: up to you Re: "Remember, it will be the first time that Japanese people type [when Japanese Macs are available]. There is no standard for that task because all business communication in Japan is handwritten." said the Product Manager of International Mac Team. Here they go again! This is another example that some people are fond of claiming themselves to be the first when they actually are not. I wonder how those foreign clone machine manufacturers that they sued would feel about this. In fact Xerox JStars as well as many other international Star products have been on the market for a couple of years; and CStar prototypes have been available inside Xerox for some time. Moreover, Japanese and Chinese themselves (that are not Xerox employees) have been developing computers and keyboards for their own languages for many years, too. Their existing input methods and the display quality might not be so good as those with Xerox JStar or CStar, and most of them, like Mac, don't have laser-quality outputs or Ethernet. But for sure it will NOT be "the first time that Japanese people type", when Japanese Macs are available; and neither is it the case for Chinese. According to some Japanese friends of mine, it is also NOT true to say that "all business communication in Japan is handwritten"; and it is not the case for Chinese either. I have in my home a Chinese book published in Hong Kong printed by laser printers with beautifully digitized Chinese characters; and in Taiwan I have seen computerized billing statements from some large organizations with Chinese characters printed by dot-matrix printers. As to common business (wo)men in Taiwan or Hong Kong, they usually hire a typist to type their business letters using a special typewirter for Chinese or Japanese characters. There are many such typing shops on the streets, and many (even small) businesses have their own typists and machines. The price is only about several dollars per page, higher if electric typewriter is used, lower if one hires one's own typists. Based on these facts, do you believe what he said that in Japan, a technologically more advanced country than Hong Kong or Taiwan, people still have to use hand writing for business communication? It's really ...... !!
info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (04/28/84)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 84 10:11 PST From: uw-beaver!Mendelson.es@XEROX.ARPA Subject: May/June issue of MacWorld--Japanese/Chinese character sets To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA It's clear that Apple is not hiring them fast enough out of Xerox PARC. Xerox has long ago developed its solution to the Japanese and Chinese Kanji problem. Do you suppose Apple will soon have the first Kanji printer also? Jerry Mendelson