info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (07/07/84)
Posted-Date: Fri, 6 Jul 84 11:25:04 CDT
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 84 11:25:04 CDT
From: Werner Uhrig <uw-beaver!werner@ut-ngp.ARPA>
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.ARPA
Subject: New perspectives on Macintosh [from INFO-MCIRO]
>From starr@shell.UUCP (Bob Starr) Sun Feb 6 00:28:16 206
Subject: New perspectives on Macintosh
I have been reading the letters and reviews of the Macintosh which
have been swamping the computer press lately.
Most of the letters begin "I have had my Macintosh a week now, and
boy is it wonderful and boy IBM should be scared...." and other such
mouth foaming.
I always wondered about those letters... the Mac may be easy enough
to use that it was choice #1 of people who had lobotomies, but
christ, you don't know enough about a machine in a week to rave about
it, sell your mother for it, etc.
Well, boys and girls, *finally* I am seeing realistic appraisals of
the Mac (from people who *really* tried to *use* the thing for a
*real* application).
They appear in the latest issue of Byte (July). One thing to read is
the editorial (p.6) from Phil Lemmons (Byte Editor in Chief), and
the other is from our old friend Jerry Pournelle in his "Chaos Manor"
column (p.312-316 & p.376-377).
I won't tell you what they say, but Phil Lemmons closes his editorial
saying "truly friendly computers, like friendly humans, give their human
friends credit for some intelligence."
Personal note: All I have seen Macs and Lisas used for is generating
cute little notes to hang around the computer room! They just pass the
IBM PC by when it comes to doing "serious" work!info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (07/07/84)
Date: 7 July 1984 03:24-EDT From: Jerry E. Pournelle <uw-beaver!POURNE@MIT-MC> Subject: New perspectives on Macintosh [from INFO-MCIRO] To: werner@UT-NGP Cc: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM In-Reply-To: Msg of Fri 6 Jul 84 11:25:04 CDT from Werner Uhrig <werner at ut-ngp.ARPA> Oddly enough I had not read Phil's editorial. Interestingly: our new Mac has the "Programmers switch" as an external plastic unprotectexd add-on that can be h it by putting a book against the side of the Mac; maybe it would have been better to be inside? But recessed or protected might be better. I have second drive for Mac now. In some ways it is very nice, but like a lot of the Mac stuff (such as the calculator) the conception is far better than the execution: for reasons I do not know, to copy ALL FILES from one disk to another requires that you, in the middle of the copy operation, insert the system disk on which you booted the mac into the main drive. If there is a reason for this nonsense (means that you cannot set up a copy operations and go away) I do not know it. Printing: it can't just ask if you are ready to print. No, it must trundle a while THEN ask, meaning that you cannot set things up to print and go away while it saves onto the memory image or whatever it does before it prints; you must wait and tell it you really mean it. Why is this? That darned Mac is the most frustrating thing -- like the old VULCAN data base program, "Infuriatingly excellent"? It's great to play with, but when you try to DO something with it--I have been using it to answer mail, and YES, I DO like to pput fried eggs in letters. But a 100 word letter takes about 8 minutes from invoking Macwrite to sealing the envelope. This is excessive; and the time was not taken in writing the letter whch took about 45 seconds. Most of the time is spent simply waiting. "Page Breaks" for instance are not form feeds, but a signal to insert spaces to the end of the 8 1/2 by 11 page (or a couple of other page lengths). I want to use 8" notepaper; why must it insist on telling me the paper lentghts it allows? If this is user friendly-- Think T ank is great on the Mac. So is Millionaire. But Think Tank has the problem of how do you get the outlines OUT of the machine to a real text processor with spelling checking and such like? I now have a table covered with: keypad mouse second drive keyboard mac and we are obviusly going to have to use a hard disk if this is to be fast enough for any really useful work. The conception was great. The idea of a machine that deviated from the main trend is all right IF there's no attempt to isolate the user from the rest of the computer community ( I fear there was, here, but perhaps I'm wrong). The execution leavs a LOT to be desired as a practical working device for som,eone who simply wants to write articles (no full screen length) do spread sheets (slow) and get his taxes done. Sigh. The little bugger is fun to play with, and Think Tank really flies on it. They seem to have managed to get in with the icons; their disk even boots from turning the machine on. How did they manage that?
info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (07/08/84)
Date: Sat 7 Jul 84 22:46:16-CDT From: Werner Uhrig <uw-beaver!CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA> Subject: Re: New perspectives on Macintosh [from INFO-MCIRO] To: info-mac@UTEXAS-20.ARPA Cc: pourne@MIT-MC.ARPA In-Reply-To: Message from "Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA>" of Sat 7 Jul 84 02:24:00-CDT Jerry, I just read the first issue of MACWORLD and, I think, I understand a little better, what causes you to flaming outbursts: The hype is simply suffocating; one would think they are published by Apple themselves. Well, I would not be surprised if the cooperation needed to get out the magazine as early (too early ??) as the MAC created a lot of "nest-warmth" resulting in pink eye-shades. As a result, I believe they are, actually, hurting the image of the MAC by antagonizing every and any knowledgable reader - us academics are really more at home at applying criticism rather than nodding our head in agreement - and these articles have the effect of a red flag ! In a way, your style of tearing at the MAC has the same fault, in that it loses effectiveness by making the reader WANT to disagree with you because you seem so one-sided and unneccessarily harsh in your criticism. Of course, you may not be concerned about or desire any particular reader-response, and my reaction may be completely atypical, but in the interest of improving the chances for a viable competition for IBM, I wished I'd see you write for "effect", critical of the obvious shortcomings of the MAC (and believe me, I sit here fuming at it the same way you do), but playing the role of a "benevolent godfather", who'd rather not see any harm come to the MAC. Some friends believe that you are only "baiting" Apple, but I don't read that attitude between your lines - of course, I KNOW that you want to see ever better machines and are not completely unsympathetic with the MAC, but .... As an aside, maybe us "knowledgable" users are simply going to be a small enough percentage of all buyers that our wishes and needs do not carry much weight anymore when designing / marketing the next generation of computers - makes me feel like somewhat like a ..... (substitute your favorite endangered species) In answer to specific topics in your note: RE: "Programmer Switch" - I imagine you have the same little plastic gizmo which came in the white box, and can be stuck into the cooling slits on the left rear? Lovely to get no instructions on how to make use of it, right again !!! And a manual that does not contain the error codes, which the MAC uses to tell me what's wrong when it stops !!! RE: "Second Drive" - there are several annoying aspects: 1) it seems that it is impossible to copy without formatting first 2) unless you "introduce" the "new" disk and the disk to be copied to the system on different drives, the system will attempt to perform the copy on the same drive, making you swap the disks around. 3) should you, accidentally or on purpose, insert another new disk, when prompted for the system disk again, all of a sudden the system will request that "other" disk again later. Why? MacHeaven may (or may not) know ... 4) the DiskCopy utility which comes with on the more recent versions of the System or Write/Paint disk, does NOT know about 2 disk drives - so much for friendly system programs. I bet, if the MAC-OS was an open-system, I'd have hacked up something better already. Like my one year-old Charisma, the MAC is a lovely baby; making it sure must have been as much fun; the parents are certainly intelligent and educated people. But do the MacParents have all their marbles together when they expect me to wait the same "couple of years" of continuous investment in hardware and software before HE becomes an adult? At least, Charisma never made such claims, nor did anyone else on her behalf !!! My solution is to call the MAC an "infant" and warn everyone to be on the lookout for childish behavior, and to disbelief the "stary-eyed" claims of all his parents and eucators. -- But .... I still think I' m in love with him (-: -------
info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (07/09/84)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 84 12:50:46 edt From: uw-beaver!winkler@harvard.ARPA (Dan Winkler) To: CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA, info-mac@UTEXAS-20.ARPA Subject: Re: New perspectives on Macintosh [from INFO-MCIRO] Cc: pourne@MIT-MC.ARPA What do you mean "if the MAC-OS was an open-system" ? The Mac OS *is* an open system (except for the secret of how QuickDraw does regions). The Inside Mac manuals provide almost 3000 pages of information about the toolbox and OS and Apple has made many of their best people available at Mac Tech Support to answer questions by phone.
info-mac@utcsrgv.UUCP (info-mac) (07/11/84)
Date: Mon 9 Jul 84 02:15:44-CDT From: Werner Uhrig <uw-beaver!CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA> Subject: Re: New perspectives on Macintosh [from INFO-MCIRO] To: winkler@HARVARD.ARPA, info-mac@UTEXAS-20.ARPA Cc: pourne@MIT-MC.ARPA In-Reply-To: Message from "winkler@harvard.ARPA (Dan Winkler)" of Sun 8 Jul 84 11:50:44-CDT RE: >> The Inside Mac manuals provide almost 3000 pages of information about >> the toolbox and OS and Apple has made many of their best people >> available at Mac Tech Support to answer questions by phone. Dan, the material accompanying my MAC contains no hints of other manuals or support service available by phone. But that's besides the point; what's missing are not 3000 pages of details or babysitting via phone, but a standard set of documentation which would allow a non-brain- damaged user to live with the bugs and shortcomings of the basic MAC-environment, or better even , enable him to debug and improve and build on the available basic tools. my standards may be different, but the basics I expect to receive with a computer include a list of error messages and a description of the interfaces. Even a car manual tells you what the warning lights mean and what to do (even if calling a mechanic is not what I call "helpful"). Compare what you get with any CP/M or MS-DOS based system, not to speak of UN*X, and tell me again that the MAC is "open", "open" for general use that is. It's great that you can get 3000 pages of manuals, for extra $$$$, but the documentation which comes with the MAC certainly does not contain such information or offer - so how am I to now ???? (me, John Doe User) Well, I guess our expectations of what we'd expect to receive for $2K+ differ somewhat. Cheers, (for friendly user-interfaces), Werner -------