rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (05/11/84)
ME: ...on the other hand, most 19th century music turns my stomach, being a load of blithering self-indulgence; note that many self-proclaimed "classical" [sic] music aficionados know nothing but this sort of stuff) [ON PROGRESSIVE ROCK] ... the whole genre (like 19th century Romantic music) got too self-inflated for its own good, where technical skill and showing off became more important than the music itself) WINSLOW: [I'M SURPRISED THAT YOU READ THE ARTICLE!] Just what do you mean by this "19th century" music? Sorry, Rich, you're not going to get away with that. In diversity of styles, the 19th century is second only to our own. let's see... 1) Full-fledged and late Beethoven Most of the 19th century composers that followed simply continued in Beethoven's tradition, rather than offer anything new. 2) Chopin Chopin was the one example of 19th century music that I included in my list. But I added "only when he wasn't noodling around"; he offered harmonic innovation, but he also brought us a legacy that continues today in hacks like Liberace and Rick Wakeman. 3) Liszt - purveyor of the the sublime and the ridiculous (alas, mostly the latter) More of the same (couldn't agree with you more...) Read my earlier comments on Chopin, Liszt, and Rachmaninoff. 4) Wagner - a major step in the exhaustion of the tonal system (at least as it was known then - and now in most schools) As one music scholar once said, Wagner was the first "great" composer who had a "distasteful nature". It showed in his music. Despite the immense power of his chromaticism, it was all imbued with an emptiness that reminds me of insipid Broadway extravaganza and epic television miniseries. I'll skip Brahms and Verdi for the moment. 5) Mahler, R. Strauss, Debussy, - Their best work was in the 20th century, so I guess we can leave them out - or did the 20th century begin in 1914? oops, Debussy just became a 19th century composer! Debussy wrote his most revolutionary piece, Prelude a l'Apres Midi d'un Faune, in 1894. If anything, that is where the 20th century (in musical terms) began (although some place it in 1908 when Schoenberg first wrote in dodeca- phonic style). Note that Camille Saint-Saens, one of the premier musical bigots of any time (though an eminent musical scholar), left the premiere of Afternoon of a Faun saying that that moment marked the end of western music. Note that he also walked out on the premiere of Le Sacre du Printemps, because he was appalled that any decent composer would score such a high note for a bassoon!! Real open-minded guy (like...) [PLEASE DON'T QUIBBLE ABOUT DATES. I'M WRITING THIS FROM MEMORY.] I stand by my statement about 19th century music. Everyone is entitled to their tastes, of course. Even I actually like some of Liszt, Wagner, Beethoven, and Chopin, and there's plenty of it out there that I have yet to hear (but real innovators in that century were often swept under the rug). Still, it seems that 19th century music is roughly analogous (in classical music) to Top 40 in popular music. In both places, there has been a great deal of great creative work going on, but what does everybody know and listen to?-- Ludwig van (oh, me brothers) and Michael J. (There, that should ruffle some feathers, and maybe even start some discussion here.) -- "You are not SAM. You are not ISAM!!!" Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr