anderson@uwvax.UUCP (05/05/84)
<> A recent article by Jeff Winslow points out that Cage's music, by virtue of its randomness, conveys nothing to its listeners. In particular it does not convey "beauty". This is true, and is in keeping with its purpose. We enjoy experiencing beauty because it triggers feelings, perhaps pleasant or profound. The goal of Zen meditation, on the other hand, is the cessation of thought and emotion. Not the cessation of awareness. I think that Cage's non-beautiful music has a similar purpose. In response to a couple of other points in Jeff's article: first, Cage does indeed "know" a lot about Zen Buddhism. Again, I recommend any of Cage's books, which are an entertaining and though-provoking blend of musical comments, anecdotes, and koans (short, cryptic writings designed to stump and infuriate the rational mind). Secondly, there may be people for whom mentions of Eastern philosophies have some sort of chic attraction, and these people may like to drop Cage's name, but I doubt that they regularly listen to his music. Listening to Cage (and practicing Zen) are very difficult and initially unrewarding activities. I never got beyond this initial period, but there is evidence that other people have. David Anderson (uwvax!anderson)
amigo@iwpba.UUCP (amigo) (05/09/84)
I think that David Anderson sums up very well my main objection to Cage (indeed, many 20th century composers--Schoenberg comes immediately to mind) when he says: >> Listening to Cage (and practicing Zen) are very difficult >> and initially unrewarding activities. I never got beyond >> this initial period, but there is evidence that other >> people have. When I first started listening to Bach and Mozart, I did not know what a fugue was, nor did the phrase "sonata form" have any meaning to me, but there was something in the music which did appeal to my undeveloped taste (I remember being captivated by JESU, JOY OF MAN'S DESIRING at age 6). I felt that there was something worth listening to in these works, so I continued to do so. I have never had the same feeling with Cage et al., so I have never gotten beyond the initial stage that David mentions, simply because I have had such a hard time trying to get something out of the music. I remember once listening to a programme of Schoenberg's music on the CBC radio (they played PERRIOT LUNAIRE, which comes close to being my all time least favourite piece, especially the section DER KRANKER MOND, which always makes me feel nauseous), and the person introducing the pieces said that "Schoenberg has always had a high regard among the musical cognoscenti, but has never achieved any sort of popular following;" with an unspoken, but obvious, "and I've always wondered why." Well, I could have told him exactly why. During one piece (I forget which one) of serial music, I suddenly had a flash of "He must have made a mistake, I could almost detect a tune there for a few moments." Well, I will break off now, and go and listen to Pachibel's D MINOR CANON or Vivaldi's SPRING to soothe myself. John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs--Naperville, IL ihnp4!iwpba!amigo (NOTE TEMPORARY MACHINE)
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (05/13/84)
> I remember once listening to a programme of Schoenberg's music on > the CBC radio (they played PERRIOT LUNAIRE, which comes close to > being my all time least favourite piece, especially the section DER > KRANKER MOND, which always makes me feel nauseous), and the person > introducing the pieces said that "Schoenberg has always had a high > regard among the musical cognoscenti, but has never achieved any > sort of popular following;" with an unspoken, but obvious, "and I've > always wondered why." Well, I could have told him exactly why. > During one piece (I forget which one) of serial music, I suddenly > had a flash of "He must have made a mistake, I could almost detect > a tune there for a few moments." You don't give yourself enough credit. When you thought you detected a "tune" for a few moments, you were beginning to understand what was going on. You should go back and expand your understanding from that point. I have always started understanding unfamiliar music from a few points of appreciation. Then a few more would appear, and more, until the whole thing started to make intuitive sense. In fact, the main reason I dislike popular music is that I feel like I understand a whole song (musically) almost before it's finished. Boring, huh? > Well, I will break off now, and go and listen to Pachibel's D MINOR > CANON ... to soothe myself. Well, I think I'll go have some cardboard for dinner... :-) !!!!!!!!! the truly repentant, Jeff Winslow
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (05/13/84)
Can't understand how I missed this the first time through - So, John, DER KRANKER MOND always makes you nauseous? It must be a singularly effective piece of music then, since the title translates (I believe) to THE SICK MOON (world?). Must be something in this guy Arnold's stuff after all. :-) Jeff Winslow