malik@delphi.DEC (Karl Malik ZK01-1/F22 1-1440) (07/18/84)
Mike Ellis said - Another reason why classical music is not popular is that it is, for all practical purposes, `dead'. By which I mean there is relatively little experimentation with new ideas, few or no new schools of thought, no exciting breakthroughs, and nothing to attract the most brilliant new musical minds of our time. Me > I love it. Not too long ago, there was a discussion of 'modern' music in this newsgroup. The general consensus (with exceptions) was that the classical vangard was TOO experimental, that it covered too much ground too quickly. Look at the explosive development of classical in the first forty years of this century (or in practically any other period since ~1600, except for the equally dead `classical' period). Major new styles used to revitalize classical music with each new generation, and the new music was eagerly consumed by the listening public within 20 years after its invention. > This is a bit of an exaggeration - Ives, Webern, Varese, etc are not accepted by the general (non)listening audience to this day. And as we reach present day composers, the number of people who genuinely appreciate/ understand the music grows smaller still. The same is true in physics, logic, computer-science, etc. To (roughly) quote Milton Babbitt - 'Contemporary music, like any area of advanced knowledge, is as inappropriate for the general listening audience as presenting a paper on combinatorial logic on the Johnny Carson show.' Whereas now aging ideas (like serialism, which goes back to the 30's) are still treated as overly modern, at least by the majority of the classical listening audience. No wonder so many young creative composers prefer to go into jazz, esoteric rock, &c, rather than waste their time with a listening public that will not accept any innovation whatsoever. > No argument here. Serialism (which goes back to the 20's) is an old solution to an old problem. However, since then the innovations in style and technique have been blinding (aleatoric, pointillism, indeterminate, minimal, collage, electronic/computer, graphic-notations, bio-feedback control, textural, multiphonics for woodwinds, etc. etc.). > People go into classical, rock, jazz, etc. for a variety of reasons. I have no doubt that there are creative minds in all areas. Classical has died from an overabundance of conservatives. > The concerts I go to are generally sold out, I receive newletters from various American and European contemporary music groups, the bins at my record store are well stocked with many new recordings; seems to be alive and kicking to me. > On the other hand, this newsgroup might die from an overabundance of people on adolescent power-trips. Best Wishes, Karl
gtaylor@cornell.UUCP (Greg Taylor) (07/23/84)
Hey, Karl: I think that there's a sense in which you and Michael are *somewhat* in agreement, as I've been reading your postings. I think he means DEAD in the way that the theologians of the 60's did when they solemnly declared the "death" of G-d. Y'know: dead as in irrelevant. Mr. Ellis has a pretty similar set of views about the current state of *popular* music as well...he demonstrates an admirable consistency, which is occaisionally less than clear from the postings, and the firestorming from the classical backlash (one thing those classical types know how to do is hurl thunderbolts!) Perhaps one area in which you could agree would have to do with the way that high art feeds low art and vice versa. Y'know...Carnatic classical stuff borrowed by Phil Glass which gets borrowed/admired by Bowie/Eno which winds up on some indie minimal thrash band from Carmel. I think that part of the dividing here would have something to do with asking yourself if that transfer of method/structure/style is a descent into the bowels of *popular* bowdlerization, or.... One candle lighting another. It's just that the relevance is less obvious ...How do we change that? Perhaps by finding it where it is and pointing it out. ________________________________________________________________________________ If you ask me, I may tell you gtaylor@cornell it's been this way for years Gregory Taylor I play my red guitar.... Theorynet (Theoryknot) ________________________________________________________________________________