[net.music.classical] Reply to Rosen's reply to Winslow's reply to Ellis

jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (07/24/84)

> Michael made NO claims about "the end of music".  He referred to classical
> [sic] music being dead.  

Usually, when something is dead, that's the end of it. :-) I believe I
recognized that he only referred to classical music (not "conservatorially
composed" music, a considerably narrower category you seem to have made up 
out of thin air.)

> There IS just a style there.  

Nonsense. Think about the difference in styles of the following composers:

Leonin, Machaut, Ockeghem, Des Prez, Lasso, Gesualdo, Monteverdi, Corelli,
Bach (hey, I said most Baroque music bores me), Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
Brahms, Mahler, Schoenberg, Webern, Stravinsky...

This is all just "a style"? Phooey. 

> The point Michael was apparently trying to make (! - Ed.) was that while
> other music has grown and blossomed staggeringly during this century,

Such as ragtime, for instance,   :-)

> conservatorially composed music has frozen stagnantly.

Well, I was going to ask you to furnish some evidence, but now I see it
would be useless. If you define "classical" narrowly enough, I'm sure you
can eventually find a microstyle of it that is dying. What makes you think
modern classical music is composed exclusively in a conservatory environment?
Let's see, isn't that where they grow plants indoors? :-)

>  Look at the number of people in this very newsgroup
> (paragon of openmindedness that it is :-) who detest or at best ignore
> 20th century music.  Your belief that when Michael said that classical music
> was dead he had implied that all music was dead reveals a classicocentric
> mentality...

Um, just what do you mean by 20th century music, hmmm? Oh dear, you're letting
your whatever-centricity show :-) 

Personally, I'm proud of my "classicocentric mentality" and I make no apology
for it.

>  Apparently serious music is rife with such doomsayers prophesying its own
> demise. 

And, funny thing, they always look ridiculous a few generations later.

By the way, what is this "serious" music? Is there "frivolous" music too? :-)
Well, nomenclature is a problem, isn't it? now will you please have a little
more apparent sympathy for people who try to use all these terms, classical,
popular, serious, light, etc. ? And not be so willing to take offense at the
way they are used?

Now, I said,
> While you're at it, you might inform us as to just exactly what wonderful
> innovations and new schools of thought exist in the music *you* like.
> And if you tell me "well, now they use a thingamajig instead of the dead
> instruments classical musicians use" I'll crack up with laughter.

And Rich said,
> And if *you* tell *me* "well, *now* serious composers use a tone row as a
> means of organizing a process of composition instead of the dead tonal styles
> that they used to use...", then I'll get to laugh, too :-)  (You mean you
> don't know the proper names for modern instruments, Jeff?  How uncultured...)

No, I would never say that. Modern instruments...you mean, piano? clarinet? :-)
You can't include those? What kind of centricity were you talking about?

Notice that Rich did not mention any of the new ideas that I asked Michael
to enumerate. Oh well, perhaps Michael will. Or maybe there aren't any :-)

				at last, the end!
					Jeff Winslow