[net.origins] Paranoid fancies

lew@ihuxr.UUCP (Lew Mammel, Jr.) (12/05/84)

Regarding the assertion that creationists' don't want their children to
learn about evolution, Ray Miller writes:

>I have challenged Martin (et al.) to document his slander concerning creation-
>ists in net.origins (where this discussion belongs).  He is free to use any
>published matterial from the Institute for Creation Research, the Creation
>Research Society, the Bible Science Association, or Students for Origins
>Research.  Since he has not done so, we can only conclude that his paranoid
>fear springs from his own mind, and has no basis in reality.

Ray's restriction on allowable sources is interesting. If we had the power
of subpoena, as Judge Overton did, we might find something not contained
in the exoteric literature, as Judge Overton did.  Quoting from the
"Arkansas decision" (SCIENCE, 19 FEB 1982) :

	Mr. Ellwanger's ultimate purpose is revealed in the closing
	of his letter to Mr. Tom Bethell: "Perhaps, this is old hat to
	you, Tom, and if so, I'd appreciate your telling me so and perhaps
	where you've heard it before - the idea of killing evolution instead
	of playing these debating games that we've been playing for nigh
	over a decade already." (Unnumbered attachment to Ellwanger Depo. at 3)

Ellwanger was the one who drafted the "Balanced Treatment for Creation-Science
and Evolution-Science Act" which was the subject of the trial.

Paranoid fancy, Ray?

	Lew Mammel, Jr. ihnp4!ihuxr!lew

miller@uiucdcsb.UUCP (12/09/84)

I find Lew's most recent article on the evolutionists' position on education
quite satisfying.  I challenged the evolutionists to support their claim
and allowed them the use of any and all material published by ICR, CRS, BSA, or
SOR.  Lew calls my offer a "restriction on allowable sources".  Indeed!  Since
these are the only large organized creationists groups that I know of, I find
his hesitancy quite illuminating.  Instead, Lew digs out some obscure letter
between two individuals not in any way connected with any of the groups just
mentioned.  In fact, neither ICR, CRS, BSA nor SOR has suggested that the best
way to get creationism accepted is to either 1) remove evolution from the 
schools or from the eduction of creationist children (the current topic under
discussion) or even 2) pass legislation mandating equal time.  In fact,
Dr. Gish has even said he would "not recommend" other states to pass equal time
provisions.
Now I know both 1 & 2 are favorite myths of the evolutionists, but you'll just
have to document your case before spreading any more disinformation - at least
on this net.

A. Ray Miller
Univ Illinios

ps. I repeat: where are the SOR #3 pamphlet criticisms?  I'm almost ready with
#4 and I don't want to post it until I've seen the results of #3.