[net.origins] Creation / Evolution Debate

miller@uiucdcsb.UUCP (02/12/85)

1) ICR is not, and never has been, a membership organization.  Hence, any
discussion by the evolutionists of membership qualifications/characteristics
is moot.

2) SOR #5 will be delayed at least until March.  I've been spending my spare
time preparing for a creation/evolution DEBATE here on campus.  You are all
invited.  It will be on Tuesday, Feb. 19, at 7:30pm in Lincoln Hall Theater
here on campus.  The speakers will be Dr. Duane Gish from the Institute for
Creation Research and Dr. Craig Nelson from Indiana University.  The sponsors
are:  Students for Origins Research, the Illini Forensic Association, the
Student Organization Resource Fee, BASIC Christian Fellowship, and the School
of Life Sciences (which includes Biology, MicroBio, Ecology Ethology & Evolu-
tion, ...)  Be there early as the room only holds 700 and we expect to easily
reach capacity.  Admission is free.

A. Ray Miller
Univ Illinois

sjs@u1100s.UUCP (Stan Switzer) (02/13/85)

In article <32500023@uiucdcsb.UUCP> miller@uiucdcsb.UUCP writes:
> 
> 1) ICR is not, and never has been, a membership organization.  Hence, any
> discussion by the evolutionists of membership qualifications/characteristics
> is moot.
> 
> 2) ...  a creation/evolution DEBATE here on campus.  You are all
> invited.  It will be on Tuesday, Feb. 19, at 7:30pm in Lincoln Hall Theater
> here on campus.  The speakers will be Dr. Duane Gish from the Institute for
> Creation Research and ...
> 
> A. Ray Miller
> Univ Illinois

FOUL -- doublespeak.

This is a severe case of Intellectual Dishonesty!

In view of (1), exactly in what sense is Dr. Gish FROM the ICR (2)?  Indeed,
perhaps we all are from the ICR!  Maybe he lives there.  What kind of
organization is it anyway?  You will not tell me that the ICR does not
endorse him, or contrariwise that his being a member (or *whatever*) does
not show his endorsement of that "organization."  Will you?

You have to respect truth before you can champion Truth.

----------------------------------------------------------
Stan Switzer      |  "I'm just looking for an honest man."
ihnp4!u1100s!sjs  |      -- Diogenes

bill@utastro.UUCP (William H. Jefferys) (02/16/85)

> 
> 1) ICR is not, and never has been, a membership organization.  Hence, any
> discussion by the evolutionists of membership qualifications/characteristics
> is moot.

The original writer mentioned both the CRS and the ICR.  Ray is correct
that the ICR does not have a requirement that members sign a statement;
it is the CRS that does.  This does not affect the truth of the original
writer's assertion that both the CRS and ICR are patently religious
organizations.

By the way, Ray, while you have Duane Gish in tow, see if you can get
a straight answer out of him on his claims about the similarities between
human and bullfrog blood proteins.  A reference to the scientific
literature backing up his amazing claims will suffice.  Betcha you can't!

-- 
"Men never do evil so cheerfully and so completely as when they do so from
	religious conviction."  -- Blaise Pascal

	Bill Jefferys  8-%
	Astronomy Dept, University of Texas, Austin TX 78712   (USnail)
	{allegra,ihnp4}!{ut-sally,noao}!utastro!bill	(uucp)
	bill%utastro.UTEXAS@ut-sally.ARPA		(ARPANET)

ward@hao.UUCP (Mike Ward) (02/17/85)

> 
> You have to respect truth before you can champion Truth.
> 
Absolutely UNTRUE!!!

As we see here again and again, a cavalier disregard for truth
makes it so much easier to champion Truth.  I suspect that truth
and Truth are diametriclly opposed.

Sort of like science and creationism.

-- 

Michael Ward, NCAR/SCD
UUCP: {hplabs,nbires,brl-bmd,seismo,menlo70,stcvax}!hao!ward
ARPA: hplabs!hao!ward@Berkeley
BELL: 303-497-1252
USPS: POB 3000, Boulder, CO  80307

johnston@spp1.UUCP (Micheal L. Johnston) (02/21/85)

> In article <32500023@uiucdcsb.UUCP> miller@uiucdcsb.UUCP writes:
> > 
> > 1) ICR is not, and never has been, a membership organization.  Hence, any
> > discussion by the evolutionists of membership qualifications/characteristics
> > is moot.
> > 
> > 2) ...  a creation/evolution DEBATE here on campus.  You are all
> > invited.  It will be on Tuesday, Feb. 19, at 7:30pm in Lincoln Hall Theater
> > here on campus.  The speakers will be Dr. Duane Gish from the Institute for
> > Creation Research and ...
> > 
> > A. Ray Miller
> > Univ Illinois
> 
> FOUL -- doublespeak.
> 
> This is a severe case of Intellectual Dishonesty!
> 
> In view of (1), exactly in what sense is Dr. Gish FROM the ICR (2)?  Indeed,
> perhaps we all are from the ICR!  Maybe he lives there.  What kind of
> organization is it anyway?  You will not tell me that the ICR does not
> endorse him, or contrariwise that his being a member (or *whatever*) does
> not show his endorsement of that "organization."  Will you?
> 
> You have to respect truth before you can champion Truth.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Stan Switzer      |  "I'm just looking for an honest man."
> ihnp4!u1100s!sjs  |      -- Diogenes


Maybe I can clear this up. There is no doubt that Duane Gish is a member
of the ICR and that he endorses it as it endorses him. Although you took
Miller's point in its entirety, it needs the context of the recent
postings to this group for its meaning. Lately people have stated
(although if they're not members of the ICR, they're sooting in the dark)
that membership in the ICR and professing to be Jewish or Christian were
synonymous. I'm sure, my apologies if wrong, that Miller is simply stating
that membership is open to those who have a desire to research creationism
as a viable answer to the origin question and not based on other criteria.

			Mike Johnston

darin@tmq.UUCP (Darin Adler) (02/26/85)

> 
> 1) ICR is not, and never has been, a membership organization.  Hence, any
> discussion by the evolutionists of membership qualifications/characteristics
> is moot.
> 
> 2) SOR #5 will be delayed at least until March.  I've been spending my ...
> ... on campus.  The speakers will be Dr. Duane Gish from the Institute for
> Creation Research and Dr. Craig Nelson from Indiana University.  The ...
> 
> A. Ray Miller
> Univ Illinois

Please clear this up for me ...

  1) ICR is NOT a membership organization.
  2) Dr. Duane Gish is "from" the ICR.

In addition, this net is not and never has been, a membership organization.
Hence, referring to discussion about ICR as "by evolutionists" incorrectly
implies that this discussion included only those who should be labeled
evolutionist.

Darin Adler (...!tmq!darin)

___ a soon-to-be-labeled evolutionist ___