[net.origins] More Gross Errors

hua@cmu-cs-gandalf.ARPA (Ernest Hua) (03/03/85)

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> { from: michab@aecom } ...
>
> Now on to something relevent... How can you claim that  evolution
> is  a  scientific theory? I grant that it may be possable (though
> highly improbable), I thought that science  was  based  upon  the
> possability of doing a repeatable experiment. Unfortunately, evo-
> lution on earth leading to our existance  has  happened  already,
> and  can never happen again. Although you *may* be able to dupli-
> cate evolution, you can never repeat the original.

Evolution is a process of nature.  It is a very broad and general view
of what nature tends to do.  Biological evolution is only a small part
of it.  Scientists are not concerned about what steps evolution took a
few million years ago.  Scientists are concerned about its mechanism.
The evidence shown by various studies, such as the study of fossils,
is too convincing to be ignored.  (They are something which creationists
try to attack by grossly distortions and pseudo-debunking.)  If you go
the library, you can find all the books you need to learn about some of
these evidences so I won't waste my time listing them.

The GROSS ERROR here is your lack of understanding of science.  Obviously,
you only have a mistconception at best.  Science is not based solely on
trying to repeat processes.  After all, the police trust scientists to
play detective in solving crimes.  If you must use your pseudoargument,
then *NO ONE* can ever be convicted of a crime in the absence of direct
eyewitness testimony, which can also be misleading.  Repeating the past
processes does NOT prove that it ever happened.  It only proves that it
COULD have happened that way.

I do recall several good posts in the past discussing what science is
about, so PLEASE, refer to them or a few books on science.  Sometimes,
writers tend to romanticize their writing through eloquent phrasing and
pictureque words.  You should be able to distinguish between this type
of characterization of science and an actually technical description of
it.  It is certainly not as simple as repeating processes.

> I have a couple of questions... How valid  is  carbon  dating?  I
> beleive it is based on the ASSumption that the percentage of car-
> bon that is radioactive to carbon that isn't. I  won't  swear  by
> it.  Remember  when  someone claimed to have found Noah's ark? It
> was carbon dated to be 4,500 years old. It was later proven to be
> a  midievel  monastary.  Do  you  know  that Plutonium dating, (a
> meathod not based on a similar assumption) proved that a batch of
> iron  ore (which can only be formed by the heat of formation of a
> planet - or it's equivalent) was no more than 10,000 years old.

I wouldn't swear by carbon dating alone, either.  However, you seem to be
suggesting that carbon dating is the final word.  This is certainly not the
case.  There are many other methods of dating.  A more recent method that
is highly accurate and highly consistent with other methods is called the
`decay track` dating, which does not assume any `original` composition.

I do not know where you got the iron ore example.  I would like to see
you post the actual data/experiment/article/whatever that specifically
describes it.  There is another GROSS ERROR here.  You seem to suggest
that only one batch of iron ore dated at < 10,000 years will outweigh
all other dating methods that show the earth to be several billion years
old.  This is an inexcusable error in logic that many creationists use.
They prefer to use the exception rather that the general trend to deter-
mine some approximation of reality.

> About us closed minded, anti-progress religionists... Do you know
> that  amoung Columbus' papers was a copy of Maimonides' "Guide to
> the Perplexed(13 cent.) which said that the world is  round.  You
> see  Maimonides'  saw  the  horizon. Or that according to the Ba-
> bylonian Talmud, Tractate Eruvin Rabbi Gamliel (1st century BC  -
> 1st  century  AD)  had  A  tube  he used for measuring distances.
> Rashi, a midievil commentary, writes  on  this  "one  would  look
> through it. It could be extected to see objects further away, and
> collapsed to see closer ones"(translation mine).

What was the point of this paragraph?  It is confusingly worded, and I
cannot really decypher your point.  I am guessing that you want to give
religionists some credit for historic discoveries.  So what does THAT
prove for creationism?  I believe it was a monk that brought into light
the idea of inheriting traits.  This is neither support for evolution
nor special creation.  So my mentioning it, and your paragraph above,
is totally worthless to the mainstream of the discussion.

> Just in case anyone out there is curious, I personally beleive in
> creation.  ...

My condolences.
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Keebler