[net.origins] Origin of man

jp@lanl.ARPA (03/13/85)

  
Perhaps there are people on this net who can supply me with an
answer to my question.

If man descended from Adam and Eve, where did the generations
after their children come from?  Did these early people commit
INCEST?  Or, were there other ancestors of man lurking about?

Jim Potter, jp@lanl.arpa

dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) (03/19/85)

In article <23193@lanl.ARPA> jp@lanl.ARPA writes:
>
>  
>Perhaps there are people on this net who can supply me with an
>answer to my question.
>
>If man descended from Adam and Eve, where did the generations
>after their children come from?  Did these early people commit
>INCEST?  Or, were there other ancestors of man lurking about?
>
>Jim Potter, jp@lanl.arpa

 Yes, Adam and Eve did commit INCEST. What we know of genetics today
 explains the dangers of incest. The answer to your question is a
 theological one and not scientific. Incest may have not been as
 dangerous when the earth and the human race was still relatively
 new. As the account goes, when Adam sinned, he died. His death was
 a spiritual death with a physical death to follow. Christ came to
 redeem mankind from sin and the effects of sin, which is both deaths.
 Death is a seperation, physical death is seperation from the body,
 and spiritual death is seperation from God. God says "The wages of sin
 is death". Since the entire human race was in the loins of Adam at the
 time of his sin, this means the death of the entire fallen, human race.
 However, at this early period of time, the effects of sin (death) were
 not so advanced and the human specimen was not as imperfect as today.
 This is why the people of this era lived for hundreds of years. The
 canopy of vapors surrounding the earth which was removed at the Noachic
 flood of course had much to do with this also. But with all the great
 medical breakthroughs, the human race is still destined to die. Cancer,
 starvation, drug and alcohol OD's and even suicides are all symptoms
 of a dying race. God allowed incest since it was the only means of
 multiplying the human race at that time. It was His perogative!

				     Dan

pvp@ihuxo.UUCP (Philip Polli) (03/20/85)

Dan Boskovich writes:

> Yes, Adam and Eve did commit INCEST.

Apparently Adam and Eve existed. Did I miss some interesting
scientific discovery? Is this an identity or perspectival(?) statement?
I don't recall any of the other creationists on the net (even ICR)
claiming the literal existence of Adam and Eve. Anybody care to
provide scientific evidence for the existence of the ill-starred couple?

> What we know of genetics today explains the dangers of incest.
> The answer to your question is a theological one and not scientific.
> Incest may have not been as dangerous when the earth and 
> the human race was still relatively new.

Why is the dangerousness of incest in the past not a scientific question?
The danger is physical, not spiritual. Sounds like your answer is:
"God can do anything he wants to, so there"
when somebody asks you to explain the implications of your assertions.
I'm sure it makes you feel good, but it doesn't count as science.

By the way, since you don't seem to have noticed, this newsgroup has been
trying to determine the "scientific" basis of creationism.

>...[ deleted clearly theological statements ]...
> Since the entire human race was in the loins of Adam at the
> time of his sin, this means the death of the entire fallen, human race.

How did we all get in Adams loin? Didn't Eve have anything to do with it?
How long ago did Adam and Eve live, anyway? You sound like someone
who knows!

> However, at this early period of time, the effects of sin (death) were
> not so advanced and the human specimen was not as imperfect as today.
> This is why the people of this era lived for hundreds of years.

Again, I must have missed the new evidence indicating that people
lived so long in the past.
Please post a reference to the evidence of this.
I love to be amazed.

> The canopy of vapors surrounding the earth which was removed at the Noachic
> flood of course had much to do with this also.

There was something in the vapors that made them live so long?
Lets study the physical evidence of the vapors and find out what it was!
There *is* physical evidence you can direct us to, isn't there?
It must have had a physical manifestation we can study.

> But with all the great
> medical breakthroughs, the human race is still destined to die. Cancer,
> starvation, drug and alcohol OD's and even suicides are all symptoms
> of a dying race.

Funny, I thought we had a problem with the human race getting too
numerous, not with it dying out. If we started dying when there were
only two of us, we must be doing it wrong.

> God allowed incest since it was the only means of
> multiplying the human race at that time. It was His perogative!

Gee, God can allow sin if he wants to. What an interesting idea!
If he allows it, is it no longer a sin? No, don't answer that.
Sorry I brought it up.


	Phil Polli
	ihuxo!pvp

jdd@magic.ARPA (03/20/85)

        However, at this early period of time, the effects of sin
        (death) were not so advanced and the human specimen was not
        as imperfect as today.  This is why the people of this era
        lived for hundreds of years.

Well, yeah, and also because they counted in months, later mistranslated to
years.  But it seemed like longer because they were so perfect.

Cheers,
John ("Southern Baptist") DeTreville
DEC SRC, Palo Alto

larryg@teklds.UUCP (Larry Gardner) (03/22/85)

Obviously Adam and Eve's children had to marry each other because their
wasn't anyone else.  It sure doesn't take long to get the world populated
however.

karen

ward@hao.UUCP (Mike Ward) (03/23/85)

[]
> Apparently Adam and Eve existed. Did I miss some interesting
> scientific discovery? Is this an identity or perspectival(?) statement?
> I don't recall any of the other creationists on the net (even ICR)
> claiming the literal existence of Adam and Eve. Anybody care to
> provide scientific evidence for the existence of the ill-starred couple?

I think it's time to throw once more into the ring the notion
of the mitochondrial DNA that indicates (proves?) that at least
99% of all humans are descended from one female ancestor.

It was on the net about a year ago.  Anyone remember the details?
-- 

Michael Ward, NCAR/SCD
UUCP: {hplabs,nbires,brl-bmd,seismo,menlo70,stcvax}!hao!ward
ARPA: hplabs!hao!ward@Berkeley
BELL: 303-497-1252
USPS: POB 3000, Boulder, CO  80307

dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) (03/26/85)

In article <150@magic.ARPA> jdd@magic.UUCP (John DeTreville) writes:
>
>        However, at this early period of time, the effects of sin
>        (death) were not so advanced and the human specimen was not
>        as imperfect as today.  This is why the people of this era
>        lived for hundreds of years.
>
>Well, yeah, and also because they counted in months, later mistranslated to
>years.  But it seemed like longer because they were so perfect.
>
>Cheers,
>John ("Southern Baptist") DeTreville
>DEC SRC, Palo Alto

 If this is true, then after the flood when God said that mans life span
 would be 120 years, and this is really months, from that time on men
 would live to be 10 years old. Gee, That means Sarah gave birth to Isaac
 when she was 7 and a half. And she thought she was too old?

				  Dan

root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) (04/05/85)

> Perhaps there are people on this net who can supply me with an
> answer to my question.
> 
> If man descended from Adam and Eve, where did the generations
> after their children come from?  Did these early people commit
> INCEST?  Or, were there other ancestors of man lurking about?

As I recall (and I don't have a Bible handy so don't quote me on this),
the descendents of Adam and Eve mingled with other humans in nearby
villages.  In other words, there were already human colonies established
elsewhere at the time of Cain and Able.

Now don't everyone jump all over me because I CAN'T verify this right
now.  But this is what I recall.
-- 


UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root	- Lord Frith
ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO

"And he made the stars, too, and the world is one of the stars"

jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (04/06/85)

> > Perhaps there are people on this net who can supply me with an
> > answer to my question.
> > 
> > If man descended from Adam and Eve, where did the generations
> > after their children come from?  Did these early people commit
> > INCEST?  Or, were there other ancestors of man lurking about?
> 
> As I recall (and I don't have a Bible handy so don't quote me on this),
> the descendents of Adam and Eve mingled with other humans in nearby
> villages.  In other words, there were already human colonies established
> elsewhere at the time of Cain and Able.
> 

	I've always wondered about this one too. It says that Cain went
off and took a wife from some other people. *What* other people ? Were
there humans lurking around not made by God (or at least the god that
supposedly made Adam and Eve) ? Kinda blows a whole in creationist theory,
doesn't it ?
-- 
  

jcpatilla

"'Get stuffed !', the Harlequin replied ..."

lmc@denelcor.UUCP (Lyle McElhaney) (04/08/85)

> > > If man descended from Adam and Eve, where did the generations
> > > after their children come from?  Did these early people commit
> > > INCEST?  Or, were there other ancestors of man lurking about?
> > 
> > As I recall (and I don't have a Bible handy so don't quote me on this),
> > the descendents of Adam and Eve mingled with other humans in nearby
> > villages.  In other words, there were already human colonies established
> > elsewhere at the time of Cain and Able.
> > 
> 	I've always wondered about this one too. It says that Cain went
> off and took a wife from some other people. *What* other people ? Were
> there humans lurking around not made by God (or at least the god that
> supposedly made Adam and Eve) ? Kinda blows a whole in creationist theory,
> doesn't it ?

This is probably not relevant, but I saw a booklet in the humor section at
B. Dalton's yesterday concerning someone's cracked science. It was mostly
a waste, but there was a section which showed the (more or less) standard
evolutionary family tree, with branches for all the genii, and on the facing
page a standard family tree with A&E at the top, and their sons below,
mated with women with a ? above them, and the author's new "synthesis",
with the two figures overlapped, the son's wives being supplied from the
evolutionary tree. Maybe he's got something there.
-- 
Lyle McElhaney
{hao, stcvax, brl-bmd, nbires, csu-cs} !denelcor!lmc

teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (04/16/85)

> > > If man descended from Adam and Eve, where did the generations
> > > after their children come from?  Did these early people commit
> > > INCEST?  Or, were there other ancestors of man lurking about?
> 
> 	I've always wondered about this one too. It says that Cain went
> off and took a wife from some other people. *What* other people ? Were
> there humans lurking around not made by God (or at least the god that
> supposedly made Adam and Eve) ? Kinda blows a whole in creationist theory,
> doesn't it ?


	Sorry to disagree. The Bible ( Genesis ch. 4, v. 16,17 ) states,
 And Cain went out from before G-D, and he lived in the land of Node, to
 the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bore him
 Chanoch. ( Let's not get into the discussion of what knowing means again ).
 The Bible does not state where Cain's wife came from, so no theory is proved
 or disproved. [ The quotes are translations of the original hebrew ].

			Eliyahu Teitz.