gjphw@iham1.UUCP (wyant) (07/09/85)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR FAVORITE MYTHS *** Before he went on vacation, Ron Kukuk gave us several installments of Walter Brown's theses in support of creationism (or, more precisely, in critique of contemporary science). Trying to avoid both quoting the original submission and going outside of my expertise, I would like to make selected comments on some of the items. 46. The First Law of Thermodynamics applied to the universe. Since thermodynamics is an empirical study, its applicability to the entire universe is suspect. Energy conservation is a trusted principle in science, but not sacred or countlessly tested. Refer to my comments on "Re: A new voice" for more detail. 47. The Second Law of Thermodynamics applied to the universe. Since classical thermodynamics assumes systems at equilibrium (no gradients or localized concentrations) without long-range correlations (long-range forces include electrostatics and gravitation), the arguments about the second law do not apply to the universe as a whole. Notice also that whether or not the universe is isolated in a thermodynamic sense is different than the issue of whether or not the universe is open or closed in a dynamic sense (due to self-gravitation). The original statement proceeds in assuming a resolution to the isolated universe question (If...) without explicitly discussing the answer. 54. Not seeing any stars being born. Since a nova or supernova produces many orders of magnitude more light than a star undergoing formation, it is not unreasonable that star births would be much more difficult to observe. In fact, novae or supernovae are often observed where no star was observable before. Recently, a few articles have appeared discussing the observations of possible stellar formations. This issue seems to be more of a sampling or observational problem than a property of nature. Below a certain mass limit, stars die quietly by going through successive dwarf stages, and these deaths would not be readily observable either. Note that the only reference given here is for a creationist text. 56. Galaxies do/do not evolve from one type to another. When just beginning graduate school, I recall that galactic evolution was still treated as a research topic. The increasing availability of supercomputers should assist in evaluating this issue. Perhaps some astronomer can provide us with the latest thinking on this. Again, the only references supplied are for creationists' texts. 57. Dates prior to written records assume a dating clock. This appears straight out of Newton's concept of an absolute time standard. The mention of a dating clock does not seem to bear on any scientific issue though science uses several dating methods. The requirement that a single dating clock exists seems superfluous. Also, the statement implies that written records serve as an accurate dating clock, which is not correct if the problems between the biblical and Egyptian/Greek/Babylonian chronologies, and Old and New Testament genealogies, are examined. Where applicable, radioactive decay is about as reliable as you might want. Before the development of the maser, the timing standard (cesium clock) derived from radioactive decay. (To be continued) Patrick Wyant AT&T Bell Laboratories (Naperville, IL) *!iham1!gjphw
gjphw@iham1.UUCP (wyant) (07/09/85)
58. Radioactive decay rates are unreliable and use unknown mechanisms. A bit of intentional semantic confusion appears to be introduced here. In science, what is known is often considered synonymous with what can be calculated accurately, even though the description may be later shown to be incorrect (e.g., Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction) or an explanation may be essentially missing (e.g., tidal tables constructed by the ancient Egyptians). The area of study called nuclear theory deals with the many properties of the nucleus of a atom. The constancy of nuclear decay, while directly checked for only 70 years, is incorporated into nuclear theory. Nuclear decay is consistent with other known properties of the nucleus, so that direct laboratory observation is not the only support for constant radioactive decay rates. It is not correct to state that no one knows what causes radioactive decay. G. Gamow calculated alpha decay in the 1940's, beta decay has been calculated and is an important component in the recent theory unifying the weak nuclear force and electromagnetism. One decay mode, positron decay, was calculated before it was observed in the laboratory. There are twelve known radioactive decay modes. The reference provided for variable decay rates is from someone (Gentry) who appears to be a creationist. When his proposals were presented in scientific journals, others found different explanations for his observations that did not rely on variable decay rates. 60. Radiocarbon dating is unreliable. When I left graduate school, there was some discussion in the journals concerning variability in the rate at which carbon-14 (radiocarbon) was being produced in the Earth's atmosphere. However, most authors wrote of variations of 10%-15% and were engaged in a study to see if these variations were periodic (and therefore correctable in dating). No one that I read suggested an order of magnitude (factor of 10) variation as would be required to confuse 5E4 years with 5E3 years. Again, the only references are creationists' texts. 73. Trace elements are rapidly accumulating in the oceans. If I asked some of my physical oceanographer friends, they could probably come up with several explanations for the residence times and concentrations of trace elements in the oceans. The problem would then be deciding which of the mechanisms is most important. 75. Meteoritic dust should be rapidly accumulating on the Earth's surface. Before the space program, the rate at which dust was accumulating on planetary bodies (e.g., Earth, moon) was speculative. Most estimates were high compared to present estimates. The references are taken from articles written before space flight became "routine", in an obvious attempt to support a point that is no longer valid. 76. If extrapolated into the past, the Earth's magnetic field is too big. This was convincingly refuted by someone on the net who presented careful evidence that T. Barnes purposely ignored data from the oldest rocks and fit an exponential to the remaining data when there was no reason for choosing that particular function for fitting. This point is not supported anywhere in the recent scientific literature. (To be continued) Patrick Wyant AT&T Bell Laboratories (Naperville, IL) *!iham1!gjphw
gjphw@iham1.UUCP (wyant) (07/10/85)
79. The moon should have a very thick layer of dust. This is related to point 75 dealing with dust accumulation on the Earth. One of the contributors to A. Montagu's book *Science and Creationism* showed how the creationist author purposely picked through old discussions, ignoring more recent estimates, to support an argument for a young solar system. The original Scientific American author was even referenced out of context in order to arrive at the thick dust estimate (the uncertainty was ignored). 82. Jupiter and Saturn are radiating more energy than they receive. Yes, Jupiter and Saturn appear to be radiating more energy in the far infrared than they are receiving from the sun. The article then lists the major energy sources for proto-suns, and proceeds to assert that this excess radiated energy comes from cooling off. What happened to these planets that they must cool off? What generated the original heat? Surely creation is not a heat generating process! 85. The sun is shrinking by 0.1% per century. This item was just breaking when I finished graduate school. There was discussion about its effects on the Earth's climate and if some terrestrial evidence might be found to support or refute the shrinking sun claims. Some of the early problems included establishing the magnitude of the effect, and disentangling it from different observational techniques and the Earth's recession from the sun. Anyone have more recent information? 88-95. Support for the existence of Noah's Ark. While not possessing any evidence one way or another concerning the existence and location of Noah's Ark, the references that were provided are of the same style as descriptions of the Yeti and Bigfoot. All of these may exist, but they have proven very difficult to document and record clearly. 97. Glaciers and the ice age are better explained by a flood. There is evidence for a series of ice ages. Does that mean that this evidence also provides support for several worldwide floods? 104. Extinction of the dinosaurs are better explained by a flood. However, a flood does not explain the simultaneous extinction of marine life at the time of the dinosaur extinctions. With evidence of several mass life extinctions, I am intrigued by the possibility of periodic catastrophes such as large meteoric impacts at 26-33 million year intervals. 114. Practically every culture has flood legends. An additional example of the same logical fallacy: A million flies can't be wrong. Eat manure! (To be continued) Patrick Wyant AT&T Bell Laboratories (Naperville, IL) *!iham1!gjphw
gjphw@iham1.UUCP (wyant) (07/12/85)
In summary The shotgun technique used by W. Brown (as posted by R. Kukuk) to critique science relies on several fallacies. One is the assertion that contemporary science and creationism contain the only explanations for the genesis of life and the universe. A second is that it is sufficient to refute science in order to establish creationism. Science is more accurately viewed as a dynamic process with many participants. The issues of establishing a fact, the interpretations of facts, and what constitutes sufficient support or refutation of any theory or collection of theories are thorny enough among legitimate investigators, but the introduction of unscrupulous players with a hidden agenda sets these difficulties into relief. Any snapshot of science will reveal its contradictions and inconsistencies, but then a snapshot usually renders an incomplete picture of a process. As has been used for unexplained archeological artifacts where extraterrestrial influences have been claimed, some creationists (e.g., W. Brown) have seen fit to select particular explanations for certain partially understood phenomena. In most cases, a half dozen non-creation explanations are also possible. These alternative natural explanations are not often given prominent coverage in the research journals because the evidence to support them is not available. This supporting evidence is what distinguishes a theory from speculation (one of my favorite activities). Popular science magazines are much better sources of speculation than academic journals. Creationism also seems to depend on the treatment of science as intuitively obvious based on ordinary experience. Science has progressed because its contributors struggled past everyday experiences to develop a new intuition. Unfortunately, this need to step beyond typical experience often renders science beyond the ready grasp of the common man (or engineer). It seems that resting support for a proposal on the ignorance of a designated competitor is fraught with danger. Creationism seems to be saying that science knows all that it ever will, and that the inconsistencies and uncertainties that exist are proof of its failure. At times, it appears as if creationists are faulting science for failing to support cultural biases and popular misconceptions. Creationism solves these difficulties by proposing temporary suspensions of natural processes that are beyond further scientific investigation. The language and concepts of the Bible figure prominently in the writing of the creationists. The inerrancy of the Bible is an important tenant of the leading creationist organizations. Yet what is the resolution when contemporary science and fundamental Christianity come in conflict? I have read that there is considered to be ample biblical support for an Earth- centered universe, but this is in conflict with space-borne observations. The philosophers of science that I have read consider that science makes its best progress when all authorities are rejected. The current age of science began in the mid-1800's, as did Christian fundamentalism. This is enough of my ramblings. W. Brown's shotgun technique makes an effective and comprehensive defense of science difficult. I have tried to deal with the few topics with which I have some personal experience. I trust that the patient reader will not confuse the incompleteness of science with a failure of science, and can recognize an insidious attack. (The end....for now) Patrick Wyant AT&T Bell Laboratories (Naperville, IL) *!iham1!gjphw
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (07/13/85)
> An additional example of the same logical fallacy: A million flies can't > be wrong. Eat manure! Yes, many of us read the net regularly. ":-)" -- | Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois --+-- | "More agonizing, less organizing." |