ted@imsvax.UUCP (Ted Holden) (10/18/85)
>> D. Gath Whitley, in an article titled "The Ivory Islands >>in the Arctic Ocean" in the Journal of the Philosophical Society of Great >>Britain, wrote the following concerning the Liakhovs: >> >> Such was the enormous quantity of mammoth remains that it seemed >> ... that the island was actually composed of the bones and tusks of >> elephants, cemented together by icy sand. >> >>The same is true of all of the Liakhov and Novo Sibirsk islands. There is >>no question of man having killed all these mammoths off; humans don't >>inhabit the area. Novo Sibirsk and the Liakhovs are a frozen wasteland for >>all but two months of the year, during which they are a semi-frozen >>wasteland. The real question is, "How in the world did elephants live there >>to begin with?". >> >> Most scholars, (who have never really thought about the problems >>involved), see the mammoths with their woolly coats and figure they must >>have had an easy time living in ice and snow. But that is rubbish. No fur >>coat of any kind would prevent any creature from starving, which is all that >>would happen to any kind of elephant which were to parachute into Novo >>Sibirsk today. In fact, amongst the creatures which have good fur coats and >>would not last a single day in Novo Sibirsk in winter, one could mention >>lions, leopards, gorillas, chimps, orangs, AND the woolly mammoth. >(Sigh. Why is it that the uninformed public believe that science is >based on just single facts or conjectures?(-:) > >Arctic Mammoth (and Mastodon) survival characteristics: > > 1) average of 3 INCHES of subcutaneous fat > only seen in the cold weather forms--not > seen in modern elephants > > 2) 2 -layered wool coat (similar to Arctic musk oxen) > layer 1 - soft thick wooolen down close to > skin, high in lanolin,very warm > (Note: this is also seen in the muskoxen > wool which is highly prized in the > Seattle area for maximum amont of > warmth with the least amont of wool) > layer 2 - thick overlying thatch of hair that > is very water resistent > (Note:This is another common feature of > arctic and winter adaptation-- > Even my 1/2 coyote pet has the > same adaptation for the winters > around here -- and he sleeps > comfortably outside in below freezing > snowy weather.) I'm sure your little pet sleeps quite well, KNOWING THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FEED HIM IN THE MORNING!!!!! Who fed the mammoths in Novo Sibirsk, Pam? Without somebody to feed them, AND GIVEN THE UNIFORMITARIAN NOTIONS OF OUR PLANET'S ORIGINS WHICH YOU ACCEPT SO BLITHELY, there would never have been anything in Novo Sibirsk to eat except ICE!!! Ice for breakfast, ice for lunch, and ice for dinner! How much food value is there in ICE, Pam? Now, comparisons between mammoths and yaks or other deer-like animals are basically meaningless because the later eat grass and have been provided by God or nature with sharp hooves to poke through ice and snow for grass during the winter. Elephants don't have sharp hooves, and they prefer LEAVES to GRASS. Furthermore, even deer-like creatures would not survive in Novo Sibirsk. Novo Sibirsk, in winter (which is 8 or 10 months out of the year there), is COVERED BY THE POLAR ICE CAP. In the unlikely event that even a yak were to be able to poke far enough through the ice in Novo-Sibirsk, all he would find would be lichens and moss, IF HE WERE LUCKY, and I have no problem maintaining that even a yak couldn't live on that. Now, since I believe in Immanuel Velikovsky's theories regarding the recent history of our planet and this solar system, I have no real problems envisioning how the mammoths whose remains are found in Novo Sibirsk and in the Liakhovs actually lived. They obviously lived in a lush steppe environment which contained the abundant vegetation needed to support elephant herds. Then, one day, about 1500 BC, their luck ran completely out, and the world was overwhelmed by a gigantic catastrophy which moved their home into the confines of the arctic circle within a single night. The elephants either died from the catastrophy itself or froze to death shortly thereafter, and several of their bodies were frozen permanently, without having had time to even partially decompose. Their stomachs were found to contain leaves and grasses which now grow only in regions far to the south of Northern Siberia. Since I have not seen the name Velikovsky (or any of the usual insults directed towards him which which I am used to seeing in replies to my articles on net.origins), I am assuming that you are not familiar with his works, the controversies surrounding him, or essentially what this whole argument on net.origins is about, which seems like kind of a shame for someone with such a genuine interest in ancient animals, and in understanding them. Copies of "Worlds in Collision", and "Earth in Upheaval" are still around under the DoubleDay label for two or three dollars. I don't believe that any true under- standing of so-called "ice-age" animals is possible without reading those two books.
friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (10/30/85)
In article <437@imsvax.UUCP> ted@imsvax.UUCP (Ted Holden) writes: > > Now, >comparisons between mammoths and yaks or other deer-like animals are basically >meaningless because the later eat grass and have been provided by God or nature >with sharp hooves to poke through ice and snow for grass during the winter. >Elephants don't have sharp hooves, and they prefer LEAVES to GRASS. And Elephants have *tusks*, which may well be even better for digging through snow than hooves. And not all deer-like animals prefer grass, many, including the White-tail and Mule Deers, prefer leaves. Also, just because living *Elephants* prefer leaves is no reason to assume that *Mammoths* did also, since they have different teeth.(Tho I suspect thay actually lived off of tundra subshrubs). >Furthermore >even deer-like creatures would not survive in Novo Sibirsk. Novo Sibirsk, in >winter (which is 8 or 10 months out of the year there), is COVERED BY THE POLAR >ICE CAP. In the unlikely event that even a yak were to be able to poke far >enough through the ice in Novo-Sibirsk, all he would find would be lichens >and moss, IF HE WERE LUCKY, and I have no problem maintaining that even a yak >couldn't live on that. > Really? Well this sounds like a case for seasonal migrations, since your own statement implies that it is *not* covered by the ice cap for 2 to 4 months of the year! And you would be surprised what can survive on moss and lichens. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen ARPA: ttidca!psivax!friesen@rand-unix.arpa