wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (03/27/84)
I have been following this abortion discussion for quite awhile now and have come to some conclusions. First, no one is going to change anyone else's mind on the subject over this net. Both sides are firmly entrenched in their beliefs and no amount of logic or persuasion is going to change a mind. There is, however, one thing that may change some minds, one way or the other. The birth of their own child. On one side, if the child is born with major birth defects or as the result of a rape or incest, the pro-lifers may wish they had gone the route of abortion. On the other side, once the pro-choicer gets one look at that magical bundle they produced, they will probably be very glad that they did not opt for abortion. There are just too many variables in the abortion issue to say that one side or the other is right. My parents didn't have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of when I, the surprise, came along. I've always considered it strange that my folks did not get married until 5 months before my birthday, but that's another story. As I have said before, using abortion as just another birth control method is criminal. The Chinese government does just this to try and control their population. There was a very good hour show on NOVA covering their population control methods and it was a tearjerker. I will have to agree with what they are attempting to do, but it was very sad to see the anguish on the faces of the women who had to have an abortion because they were not authorized to have a child at this time. It seems to me that most of those opting for abortion as a birth control method are from that economic class that can damn well afford it. There is an all pervading attitude by these people in that they are "ME ONLY". The "ME" generation seems to be doing itself a disservice by wearing blinders that reject any notion of "US". I digress. The jury is still out on the question of when life begins and stops. And, when it comes in, one side or the other will reject the findings. I just hope that we do not have to go the route the Chinese government has taken. Better birth control methods, education, and a sense of responsibility will keep us from that road. There is just nothing romantic about being 16 and pregnant. To just sit back and say, "Let them get an abortion." is not the answer to the problem. It is the lazy person's way out. T. C. Wheeler
ix192@sdccs6.UUCP (04/05/84)
[] From: ...pyuxww!pyuxa!wetcw (T. C. Wheeler) > I have been following this abortion discussion for quite awhile now > and have come to some conclusions. First, no one is going to change > anyone else's mind on the subject over this net. Both sides are > firmly entrenched in their beliefs and no amount of logic or > persuasion is going to change a mind. Then why are we having this newsgroup? Is this just a sub-division of net.flame? I don't think so. I don't know all about abortion, I don't know what people all think about it. I've come here to learn, to exchange opinions and views and go into a verbal "parrying" with our ideas and logics. I've suscribed to this newsgroup to grow, to see how my ideas and views reflect off people, and what they bounce back with. I don't think we're here to scream and yell at everyone who crosses our opinions, but to convince and be convinced, argue and be argued with. My opinions about abortion have been slightly changed since I started reading and submitting here, and I'm sure they're not going to stop changing until I leave. I think this newsgroup is stimilating a lot of thinking, so we're being productive, we're going good. "Firmly entrenched" people are pretty easy to spot. For the most part, I'm not - if I see any deductions or strings of logic better than my own, I'll firmly embrace them. And that would pretty much include all but the most stubborn-minded people, and they're pretty rare. Perhaps no group has made a sweeping success of this group, but that only show we're fairly balanced and in line for some good debates. > There is, however, one thing that may change some minds, one way > or the other. The birth of their own child. On one side, if the > child is born with major birth defects or as the result of a rape > or incest, the pro-lifers may wish they had gone the route of > abortion. On the other side, once the pro-choicer gets one look > at that magical bundle they produced, they will probably be very > glad that they did not opt for abortion. Definitly! But it works the other way - the couple may keep the kid even though they would have prefered the abortion, and it does ruin a lot of their lives. Same for the people who get the abortion even tho they wanted the kid, and somehow they realize they COULD have handled it. Post-occurence conclusions don't do very much good for the people involved. They can only say, "if only we had..." > There are just too many variables in the abortion issue to say > that one side or the other is right. That's why it's best to work in a general case, in an absolute sense that doesn't use special cases to work one way or another. If we get into the nitty-gritty details we'll be so bogged down we'll never get anything done. > As I have said before, using abortion as just another birth control > method is criminal. No it isn't. It's dangerous. Forcing the abortions as birth-control for people is criminal, but if people willingly use it it's not criminal. It's just dumb, for there are safer and less costly methods. > It seems to me that most of those opting for abortion as a birth > control method are from that economic class that can damn well > afford it. I have never, Never, NEVER seen someone on this net who was opting for abortion as a birth control method. I'm mainly repeating what I just said to Laura Creighton (sp?), but abortion is still dangerous, and even "that economic class that can damn well afford" to use abortion as a birth control won't, for the simple reason that it could make them sterile. Or kill them. > There is an all pervading attitude by these people > in that they are "ME ONLY". The "ME" generation seems to be > doing itself a disservice by wearing blinders that reject any > notion of "US". I digress. You sound like an older-generation man feeling passed-by by the "new" generation. It's not really "ME ONLY", but "ME FIRST". People nowadays tend to look after their own interests with a higher priority. But if several of the ME people get together and notice they have a common priority, they'll work on it together. That's why there's organized abortion movements, anti-nuclear and pro-nuclear, organizations for just about everything under the sun. People working together to get what THEY want. There's really no need to be bitter. People nowadays just seem to be trying to get what they want in a more direct way. > The jury is still out on the question of when life begins and > stops. And, when it comes in, one side or the other will reject > the findings. Not really. I can justify an abortion weither or not the fetus is defined to be human. So could other people! > I just hope that we do not have to go the route > the Chinese government has taken. Better birth control methods, > education, and a sense of responsibility will keep us from that > road. Debatable about the education and the sense of responsibility. What should that do to population growth that birth control won't? > There is just nothing romantic about being 16 and pregnant. There is nothing romantic about being 34 and prenant, either! Teenagers are NOT the only people who need abortions! Career women can have sex lives as well, no birth-control method is perfect! Some unlucky woman could find herself fertilized. Some are. Imagine what an unwanted baby could do to the life of an independent career woman! > To just sit back and say, "Let them get an abortion." is not > the answer to the problem. It is the lazy person's way out. For better or worse, social- and pre-martial sex are an integral part of our society, and it will be some time before they fades away (if ever!). Besides all the nice social diseases one can catch, there's our well-discussed problem of pregnancy. Saying "Let them get an abortion" may not be The Answer, but nor is it the lazy person's way out. Presently, it's the most practical way out, the best method we have of ridding our world of unwanted pregnancies. It's all we have, and we'll have to put up with it. As soon as another way is found, abortion and all its controversies will be a thing of the past. Kenn the Kenf ...!sdcsvax!kenn ...!sdcsvax!sdccs6!ix192 ...!sdcsvax!sdccsu3!kenn