brianp@shark.UUCP (Brian Peterson) (10/16/84)
First, here is the poll I sent out quite a while ago:
poll /************************************************************************/
poll I think that we will be two polarized groups of ranting idiots until
poll we get the basic assumptions in front of us. I am conducting a poll.
poll
poll A. What does "human/person" mean?
poll B. Why is a fetus/embryo a "person"?
poll (as many points as you can think of)
poll C. Why is a fetus/embryo NOT a "person"?
poll (as many points here, too)
poll
poll Please try to answer succinctly, with no propaganda or emotionalism.
poll Just state the beliefs that you hold, don't try to pile up evidence.
poll And both sides, try to answer both B and C.
poll
poll I think that this will be followed by another poll, with more detailed
poll questions determined by the answers to this poll. Please try to answer
poll quickly, so that there will be results.
poll
poll Brian Peterson {ucbvax, ihnp4, } !tektronix!shark!brianp
poll
poll [PS Can anyone give a rundown on when various features appear in embryos?]
poll /************************************************************************/
I received 9 responses. Of the 19 most recent posters in the group,
only 3 were responders. Notably absent were some of our most prolific
submitters. Those who did submit had a variety of answers.
Most were of the form "a person is..., and so is a fetus".
(I summarize below, to keep this below 300 lines total)
A person is self aware (can comprehend his own death)
A person has rational faculty
Using induction:
I am human,
parents of humans are human,
and children of humans are human.
(reject tests measuring performance of anything)
A person is a member of Homo Sapiens.
(feti are persons when they have all the features,
and can survive on their own)
A person is a member of a species whose average members are sentient,
or a legal entity given the same rights.
The question is one of definition, thus people will say whatever
depending on whether they want to bestow rights on feti.
It'll never work.
It's in the genes. (must have right number, too. No sperm or eggs)
"Of men"
Thus, there were 3 species oriented ones, 2 based on having mental powers,
1 combination of the two (5th), 2 non-answers, and one ambiguous one.
There were no religious definitions or assumptions, and only one said
anything about laws or definitions making sense.
So now we have to compare the pros & cons of
counting chromosomes and
looking to see if anyone is in there.
Which is relevant to what we want to do with this
vague thing called "society"?
Brian Peterson {ucbvax, ihnp4, } !tektronix!shark!brianp
^ ^
(PS I hereby declare frequent posters who rant without
getting down to the basics to be subuseless.)