arndt@lymph.DEC (02/28/85)
Barry:
Welcome to net.abortion. However I do not feel that I can agree with
your comments, especially "we have created the need for abortion" and
"the woman is abandoned first". I do agree that more support for women
with an "unwanted or untimely" pregnancy is what is needed.
A few facts:
o 98% of all abortions are done because, in the words of
Dr. Irvin Cushner, an abortion supporter, the women undergoing abortions
"do not wish to be pregnant at this time." Dr. Cushner, of the UCLA Medical
School, testified before a 1981 Senate subcommittee that only 1% of abortions
are performed because of any physical health problems of the mother. The
May/June 1984 issue of FAMILY PLANNING PERSPECTIVES, a journal affiliated
with Planned Parenthood, states that "most abortions have no strictly
medical indication."
[It seems to me that it is not the woman who is abandoned
but the baby!!! Abortion as performed and used in this
country is a matter of CONVENIENCE!]
o 60% of women having abortions did not make any attempt to
use contraceptives at the time they became pregnant, according to Luella
Klein, M.D. president of the American College of Obstetricians and
Gynecologists (cited in the Jan.23,1983 WASHINGTON POST)
o Over 12,000 abortions in 1980 were done on unborn babies
21 weeks (six months) or older, an age when some babies, if born prematurely,
have lived. (cited from the Jan/Feb 1983 FAMILY PLANNING PERSPECTIVES)
o In 400 - 500 abortions each year, the 'dreaded complication'
occurs and the baby is born alive, according to Dr. Willard Cates, then chief
of abortion suveillance for the Center of Disease Control (Cited in "Abortion:
The Dreaded Complication", Philadelphia Inquirer, Aug.2,1981) Of course since
that time abortionists are perfecting their methods so THEY don't have to
'finish' the operation after "it" starts crying.
o 26% of all pregnancies end in abortion.
o Every 21 seconds a baby is aborted.
---------------------------------
Hardly a case of poor struggling women desparately seeking a way out of
a horrible situation. Rather people not wanting to take responsibility
for their acts. But, if there IS justice, they are only putting off and
making worse their fate. I know that there are exceptions to the above
behavior I mention. But these women (the famous rape/incest women) are
NOT what abortion in this country is about dispite what some 'theorists'
would have us believe.
But don't worry. It's changing. What a crime it has to go on through so
many poor little lives snuffed out. Isn't it strange. When you WANT a
baby then long before it is 'born' we talk of 'baby' in the womb.
How could there be an ANGRY God? One that would make us PAY for doing wrong?
He has to LOVE us all! It's only fair.
Note carefully that the Christian God has made a way of escape for EVERYONE
who has 'sinned' to find forgivenes. One of the major thrusts of the
REAL woman's movement, the 'traditional values' woman's movement is to
minister to women who have had an abortion and are suffering guilt because
of it. There are several organizations with hotlines, etc.
But I've started preaching. I don't want to kill the abortionists (or blow
them up) just stop them.
Regards,
Ken Arndtbarry@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mikki Barry) (02/28/85)
Welcome again, Barry. Nice to see that BU (the old alma mater) is finally
on the net. Did the put ye'ol 370 on, or did they finally get a computer?
One thing you will have to contend with on this newsgroup are assumptions
made by pro-life:
1. The woman must be "responsible" for her naughty action
of having sex. The "punishment", have the baby. Note,
that even though the "famous" rape/incest victim is
allowed to have the abortion because it isn't her fault
she is pregnant.
2. The want for the fetus to be carried to term overides any
wants of the mother.
Many statistics will be brought up (some bogus), many moral arguments will
be brought up, some religious arguments will be brought up, and the whole
thing will be repeated over and over again.
Then will come the assumption by pro-choice:
1. Abortion on demand is a right (usually modified to
"in the first trimester") Even if it is only for convenience.
More statistics, arguments against using morality or religion to make laws,
and the whole thing will repeat.
And this, in a nutshell, is net.abortion.
By the way, I agree with you that abortion is not a very nice thing. Believe
it or not, I have seen many women who don't sing all the way to the clinic
when they needed an abortion. And you know, of those I knew (6), ALL had used
contraceptives. And of those 6, only 5's boyfriend came to be with them
through the ordeal, even though all 6's boyfriends thought abortion was the
right thing to do at the time. I also agree with you that pregnant women are
sometimes abandoned by society, their families, and the man that helped them to
get pregnant. AND, in some cases, by state funding to have the same rights
as those more well off (abortions, proper medical care if the decision is to
carry the fetus to term). And some are ignorant of the care provided by some
pro-life groups.
In case you haven't realized by now, I am pro abortion on demand (so are 76%
of Boston's catholics by the way). However, I also believe that there are
many women who wouldn't have abortions if there was adequate birth control
information available, AND if pro-lifers and pro-choicers could work together
WITHOUT trying to convince the pregnant woman whether or not to have an
abortion, and just lay out ALL the options. I know that many clinics do not
have access to information concerning group homes and financial aid, and
adoption assistance available to pregnant women. And I know that many pro-
life groups do not have the medical information necessary to make an informed
decision as to whether or not to have an abortion.
It sounds naive, but if the two warring factions could get together, drop
the hysteria and name calling, and work together for the common goals of:
1. Eliminating unwanted pregnancies in the first place
2. If an accidental pregnancy occurs, making ALL information
available to the pregnant woman so that an intellegent,
informed decision can be made about what is best for
everyone involved.
I think there would be much fewer abortions, and the ones that would occur
would be safe, and the woman would be sure that that's what she wanted.
Abortions have been done for thousands of years. There will always be those
women who will have them. Wouldn't it be better to lose only one life
than two? And better still to provide the education to prevent the
pregnancy in the first place?
Mikki Barryroot@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (03/01/85)
reply to Ken Arndt: I think you are probably correct at some level, abortions are often 'for convenience' rather than what most of us would consider 'desperation'. Of course these thoughts get rather mixed when something as monumental as child-bearing/raising is at stake (did I avoid the draft during the VietNam era out of 'convenience'?, I am sure some would argue this is so, but aren't they focusing in on the easy issue?) I stand on my point. The current abortion situation belies a very sick society, where our babies don't "fit in". I think stopping women from this choice is the wrong place to start. It will only make us sicker while we avoid the real issue: We have lost interest in life. -Barry Shein, Boston University
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (03/04/85)
[..............] > o 98% of all abortions are done because, in the words of >Dr. Irvin Cushner, an abortion supporter, the women undergoing abortions >"do not wish to be pregnant at this time." Dr. Cushner, of the UCLA Medical >School, testified before a 1981 Senate subcommittee that only 1% of abortions >are performed because of any physical health problems of the mother. The >May/June 1984 issue of FAMILY PLANNING PERSPECTIVES, a journal affiliated >with Planned Parenthood, states that "most abortions have no strictly >medical indication." >Ken Arndt To me, this indicates that the root of the 'pro-life' problem is centered around 'unwanted' or 'untimely' pregnancies. Abortion is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. If the pro-life people would help counsel women before they get pregnant so that they wouldn't get into situations where they wanted an abortion, then I as a pro-choicer would have no problems with them. But, they prefer to wait until the problem has already gotten out of hand, and THEN tirade about it. As far as I'm concerned, by that time, it's too late, they've missed the boat. No woman figures on abortion as a 'birth control' BEFORE she gets pregnant. Keith Doyle {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd "You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think!"