dir@cbosgd.UUCP (01/14/84)
1. Yes, certain government agencies are supporting psychic research with potential military applications. 2. Yes, the Soviets and associated Iron Curtain countries are doing research in military and political uses of 'psi', and we know (1) they have spent a lot of time and money on this research, (2) their political philosophy is not prone to supporting anything that might smack of mysticism, thus we are fairly sure they are serious about it and they at least feel they're not wasting their money, and (3) it is possible that they are more advanced than we because their government-supported research has been performed for years at fairly high levels, whereas our comparable research has been supported at low levels for only about a decade. 3. Reputable research labs in the US have performed experiments strongly suggesting that direct mental disruption of computer circuits IS possible, although specially selected people are required to make these effects occur, and even they cannot always produce the desired results upon demand. 4. A few major industrial research labs are investigating the possible computer-mind link, although most of the more visible work is being performed in Europe. I make the above statements based on the following: I know the people involved fairly well, I have visited most of the labs doing this work in the US, and I've performed (and published) replications of some of their claims. I am by no means sold on the whole psychic scenario, because a lot of it gets REAL wierd (including some of the people), but there is enough interesting evidence around to motivate me to mildly defend the topic even in the high-tech skeptical world of netnews. Watch PBS's NOVA on January 17th: "The Case of ESP." I was involved with this show, which was originally made by the BBC and broadcast as a "Horizon" program in England a couple of months ago. NOVA bought and edited the program; I don't know if my interview will be shown on the NOVA version, but in any case, I'll be glad to discuss the show with anyone. Please send flames to /dev/null, praise to /dev/ego, and all other comments to cbosgd!dir. Dean Radin - AT&T Bell Laboratories - cbosgd!dir
karn@allegra.UUCP (01/15/84)
Like I said. Better that the Russians waste their time and money on it than us. The nature of the excuses given by psychics as to why they can't perform when competent skeptics are present gives me a great idea. All we would have to do to protect a military computer from commie sabotage is to put the text of a net.misc article from Jeff Mayhew or myself into excess ROM space of the machine; better yet, have the idle task periodically copy it around spare RAM. The resulting "bad vibes" would almost certainly neutralize the Russkies' ability to crash the machine; not only that, it would probably retroactively "un-do" all of the past "positive" test results! I hope NOVA does as good a job on ESP in the upcoming show as they did demolishing the "Bermuda Triangle" and "UFOs". I can't wait to see a certain net.misc ESP proponent made to look like an idiot. Sorry for the dripping sarcasm, but I've had enough. Phil
spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (01/16/84)
I feel I need to comment on the discussion that has been going on here
concerning psychic phenomena.
A few of the people involved in the discussion to point have written
some rather extreme notes indicating that they believe psychic
phenomena to be "hogwash." If that is your opinion, be welcome to it.
However, if you bend your comments to attacks on others, please move
the discussion to net.flame.
A good researcher does not dismiss something as impossible. You may
come to the conclusion that there are simpler explanations (Occam and
his razor), or that you simply haven't observed the phenomena in
question, but you never dismiss something as impossible. Or hogwash,
for that matter.
There is a great deal we do not know about. There may, indeed, be some
kinds of psychic phenomena out there, and we just haven't found the
people, conditions, and tests to substantiate their existence to the
degree necessary to convince a skeptic. Maybe 999 out of a thousand
who claim to have psychic powers is a fake -- but don't dismiss the
whole possibility just because you haven't been convinced by that
1000th person.
I'm not suggesting that anyone believe in anything. However, we could
all benefit from trying to have an open mind about things, and try to
avoid attacks on other people's beliefs, simply because we don't agree
with them. Your thoughts on matters like this may serve as great
amusement to our descendents, along with people claiming that planes
would never fly and radio was impossible.
--
Off the Wall of Gene Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf.GATech @ CSNet-Relay
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,rlgvax,sb1,unmvax,ulysses,ut-sally}!gatech!spafguy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (01/16/84)
Well, psychic phenomena may be possible, but the history of discussion of
psychic phenomena is riddled with fradulent claims and with rather gassy
speculation on little hard evidence. If there are serious and rigorous
studies of psi being done, their signal gets drowned out by the noise of
the Uri Gellers and the people joyfully telling us how quantum mechanics
tells us all how we can read minds, travel in time, and live forever.
As such, I can understand the people who get disgusted whenever any mention
of psychic powers is made; given that more than 90% of such mention (in
general; I'm not referring to mention here on the net one way or the other) is
crud, I'm not inclined to be too harsh on those who dismiss it out of hand
simply because the likelihood of something useful coming out of such studies
is worth less to them than the time and energy it would take to investigate
psychic powers. Not all heterodox opinions and reported unusual happenings
are worth investigating; life is short and people have other things to do
as well.
Guy Harris
{seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guylute@abnjh.UUCP (J. Collymore) (01/16/84)
To Gene Spafford's comments on the current psi discussion: HERE! HERE! Jim Collymore