dir@cbosgd.UUCP (01/14/84)
1. Yes, certain government agencies are supporting psychic research with potential military applications. 2. Yes, the Soviets and associated Iron Curtain countries are doing research in military and political uses of 'psi', and we know (1) they have spent a lot of time and money on this research, (2) their political philosophy is not prone to supporting anything that might smack of mysticism, thus we are fairly sure they are serious about it and they at least feel they're not wasting their money, and (3) it is possible that they are more advanced than we because their government-supported research has been performed for years at fairly high levels, whereas our comparable research has been supported at low levels for only about a decade. 3. Reputable research labs in the US have performed experiments strongly suggesting that direct mental disruption of computer circuits IS possible, although specially selected people are required to make these effects occur, and even they cannot always produce the desired results upon demand. 4. A few major industrial research labs are investigating the possible computer-mind link, although most of the more visible work is being performed in Europe. I make the above statements based on the following: I know the people involved fairly well, I have visited most of the labs doing this work in the US, and I've performed (and published) replications of some of their claims. I am by no means sold on the whole psychic scenario, because a lot of it gets REAL wierd (including some of the people), but there is enough interesting evidence around to motivate me to mildly defend the topic even in the high-tech skeptical world of netnews. Watch PBS's NOVA on January 17th: "The Case of ESP." I was involved with this show, which was originally made by the BBC and broadcast as a "Horizon" program in England a couple of months ago. NOVA bought and edited the program; I don't know if my interview will be shown on the NOVA version, but in any case, I'll be glad to discuss the show with anyone. Please send flames to /dev/null, praise to /dev/ego, and all other comments to cbosgd!dir. Dean Radin - AT&T Bell Laboratories - cbosgd!dir
karn@allegra.UUCP (01/15/84)
Like I said. Better that the Russians waste their time and money on it than us. The nature of the excuses given by psychics as to why they can't perform when competent skeptics are present gives me a great idea. All we would have to do to protect a military computer from commie sabotage is to put the text of a net.misc article from Jeff Mayhew or myself into excess ROM space of the machine; better yet, have the idle task periodically copy it around spare RAM. The resulting "bad vibes" would almost certainly neutralize the Russkies' ability to crash the machine; not only that, it would probably retroactively "un-do" all of the past "positive" test results! I hope NOVA does as good a job on ESP in the upcoming show as they did demolishing the "Bermuda Triangle" and "UFOs". I can't wait to see a certain net.misc ESP proponent made to look like an idiot. Sorry for the dripping sarcasm, but I've had enough. Phil
spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (01/16/84)
I feel I need to comment on the discussion that has been going on here concerning psychic phenomena. A few of the people involved in the discussion to point have written some rather extreme notes indicating that they believe psychic phenomena to be "hogwash." If that is your opinion, be welcome to it. However, if you bend your comments to attacks on others, please move the discussion to net.flame. A good researcher does not dismiss something as impossible. You may come to the conclusion that there are simpler explanations (Occam and his razor), or that you simply haven't observed the phenomena in question, but you never dismiss something as impossible. Or hogwash, for that matter. There is a great deal we do not know about. There may, indeed, be some kinds of psychic phenomena out there, and we just haven't found the people, conditions, and tests to substantiate their existence to the degree necessary to convince a skeptic. Maybe 999 out of a thousand who claim to have psychic powers is a fake -- but don't dismiss the whole possibility just because you haven't been convinced by that 1000th person. I'm not suggesting that anyone believe in anything. However, we could all benefit from trying to have an open mind about things, and try to avoid attacks on other people's beliefs, simply because we don't agree with them. Your thoughts on matters like this may serve as great amusement to our descendents, along with people claiming that planes would never fly and radio was impossible. -- Off the Wall of Gene Spafford The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf.GATech @ CSNet-Relay uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,rlgvax,sb1,unmvax,ulysses,ut-sally}!gatech!spaf
guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (01/16/84)
Well, psychic phenomena may be possible, but the history of discussion of psychic phenomena is riddled with fradulent claims and with rather gassy speculation on little hard evidence. If there are serious and rigorous studies of psi being done, their signal gets drowned out by the noise of the Uri Gellers and the people joyfully telling us how quantum mechanics tells us all how we can read minds, travel in time, and live forever. As such, I can understand the people who get disgusted whenever any mention of psychic powers is made; given that more than 90% of such mention (in general; I'm not referring to mention here on the net one way or the other) is crud, I'm not inclined to be too harsh on those who dismiss it out of hand simply because the likelihood of something useful coming out of such studies is worth less to them than the time and energy it would take to investigate psychic powers. Not all heterodox opinions and reported unusual happenings are worth investigating; life is short and people have other things to do as well. Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy
lute@abnjh.UUCP (J. Collymore) (01/16/84)
To Gene Spafford's comments on the current psi discussion: HERE! HERE! Jim Collymore