avi@pegasus.UUCP (02/21/84)
Just to give an idea of one type of topic I would like to see discussed, here is one that has been on my mind. Our company does not have the allowable holidays attached to anything even remotely Jewish. We get the usual holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas, but nothing like Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Succoth, Pesach .... This can add up very rapidly to many days off -- if you take them all. I have sometimes taken off and arranged to do paperwork (reading) at home -- without losing a days pay. At other times, I have used compensatory time, non-fixed holidays, vacation days -- or just gone in to work. The problem is not as bad for me, as for some truly orthodox friends. Sometimes your entire vacation budget is used up just to stay home on Yomim Tovim. Leaving early on Friday can also be a hassle. In college, I often missed important classes and even tests, even though I was in Brooklyn College. Does anybody have suggestions or experiences that they would like to share on living in a society that is not geared up to deal with the Jewish lifestyles? Please, no suggestions to move to Israel. -- -=> Avi E. Gross @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6241 suggested paths: [ihnp4, allegra, cbosg, hogpc, ...]!pegasus!avi -- -=> Avi E. Gross @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6241 suggested paths: [ihnp4, allegra, cbosg, hogpc, ...]!pegasus!avi
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (02/28/84)
I have always believed that I should be able to take Jewish holy days as time off which is not vacation. After all, the time is not in fact vacation. On the other hand, I make a point of working on Christmas Day and the like. (I'm serious.) As to leaving early on Fridays in the winter, I have always considered that a non-issue. I just go. (On the other hand, I've always been fortunate enough to have jobs which didn't depend on doing things at any particular time of day.) In more general terms, there are several ways to react to being Orthodox in a non-Jewish (or, what is sometimes worse, a Jewish nonobservant) work environment. One is to try and hide any differences, sacrificing one's personal standards for the sake of "blending in". I see no need or justification for this in these days. A second approach is to be different and make a big point of it. A third approach, which I prefer, is to be different, visibly so, but consider the difference to be a non-issue in terms of work and work relationships. I was the first person to wear a yarmulke at a major downtown Toronto (non-Jewish) law firm. I had friends (who took theirs off when they went to work) tell me I would never get hired by one of the big firms if I went to the interview wearing a yarmulke. Well, they were wrong. The fact is, these things simply aren't a concern to most employers, even in a profession like law which is so conscious of its image. I take a simimlar approach with holidays. I have never discussed holidays or Shabbos at an employment interview (except with nonobservant Jews, who are the only ones who ever raise it). I simply take it as given that I will leave at certain times and not be available on certain days. When September comes around, in any job, I don't "ask" about time off. I simply inform the appropriate people that I won't be in on certain days. It's simple. Dave Sherman Toronto -- {allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!dave
trb@masscomp.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum) (02/29/84)
Avi and everyone, I don't work on any of the Yomim Tovim (holidays that you're supposed to stay home from work). I do NOT take vacation days, I INSIST on working compensatory time. I have always been extremely steadfast about this, and my supervision (in the Bell System) has usually been cooperative. No Yomim Tovim have cropped up since I've started here at Masscomp, but I wouldn't come interview them during Sukkos, and I made it clear to them why. If my supervision wasn't cooperative, then I would just tell them that they were interfering with my religious practices. The Bell System has high moral standards about such things, if you stand up for your religious rights, they will work it out with you so that you can get home before Shabbos starts, etc. There are many precedents to fall back on here, just ask around. Be adament. For the information of you all out there who don't know, these are the holidays that you should take off: The "High Holy days": Rosh Hashana (2 days) Yom Kippur The "Three Festivals": Succos (4) Pesach (4) Shevuos (2) These are the popular holidays that you don't (!) take off: Chanuka Purim Yes, friends, Chanuka is a minor holiday, it's not as important as the five above it. The fact that it is coincident with Christmas is coincidence. Chanuka is NOT Jewish Christmas, and giving presents, other than the normal modest Chanuka trappings, is ridiculous, and only serves to confuse children and dilute Judaism. I don't have the dates handy for this year, but I'll get them and post them to this newsgroup. Btw, the reason I don't have the dates is because the Jewish calendar is lunar, and it slides around wrt our calendar from year to year, though over the long haul it is in fine sync. A description of the Jewish calendar will make interesting reading in this space if you've never seen it before. Andy Tannenbaum Masscomp Inc Westford MA (617) 692-6200 x274 just a hymie from old hymietown
naiman@pegasus.UUCP (03/01/84)
> Yes, friends, Chanuka is a minor holiday, it's not as important as the > five above it. The fact that it is coincident with Christmas is > coincidence. Chanuka is NOT Jewish Christmas, and giving presents, > other than the normal modest Chanuka trappings, is ridiculous, and > only serves to confuse children and dilute Judaism. =============================================================== Someone once told me that Jesus was born on the first day of Chanukah, the 25th day of Kislev; and the Christians observe Christmas on the same day, twenty-five, of the approximately equivalent month in the solar calendar, December. Anyone know if this is true? -- ==> Ephrayim J. Naiman @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6259 Paths: [ihnp4, allegra, ...]!pegasus!naiman
amigo2@ihuxq.UUCP (John Hobson) (03/01/84)
Ephrayim J. Naiman asks: >> Someone once told me that Jesus was born on the first day of >> Chanukah, the 25th day of Kislev; and the Christians observe >> Christmas on the same day, twenty-five, of the approximately >> equivalent month in the solar calendar, December. >> >> Anyone know if this is true? Sorry, Ephrayim, but the reason that Christmas is celebrated on the 25th of December is that the Romans had a Winter Solistice feast (the Saturnalia) on that date, and it was pre-empted by the Christians because it was popular. On a related subject, St. Valentine's Day on February 14 is the "lovers festival" because February 15th was the Roman feast of the Lupercalia, which was a fertility festival, and one chose a partner for it on the previous day. John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs--Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihuxq!amigo2