martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (03/06/84)
Merely to have children and teach them about the holocaust is not revenge on Hitler unless the children are raised to be observant. The Germans made war specifically on rabbinic Judaism. The Germans did not molest Karaites or Samaritans who came under their control. Hitler did not simply kill people but also wiped out a culture that was different, more beautiful, and superior to European culture. If a Jewish parent raises his child as a secular American of Jewish origin or background, this parent guarantees that his descendents at the forth or fifth generation will be non-Jews who may be among the Jew-baiters and persecutors of that age. To raise Jewish children as secular Americans is national suicide and gives Hitler a posthumous victory. According to my maternal grandfather, Hakam Hassan Ajemi az-Zanzuri, assimilation into Euro-American society is particularly disgusting for Ashkenazim whose ancestors were subject to centuries of persecution by European barbarians. He attributed the rapid assimilation of American Jewry to the low class status, ignorance, and vulgarity of the Jews who immigrated to the United States of America before 1920. American Jews will only be able to transcend their ignominious origins through Jewish learning. Unfortunately, even though American Jews have more opportunities for serious Jewish learning than any other Jewish community in history, American Jews are perhaps the most Jewishly-ignorant Jews in history. Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo ATT Bell Laboartories IH 2F332 -- 312/979-2410
jho@ihuxn.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) (03/06/84)
I think that it is a serious mistake to state that Hitler was mainly after Rabbinical Jews. Hitler did not discriminate between Jews - religious or atheists. They were all sent to the gas chambers. It may have been easier to detect orthodox Jews. However, once a Jew was found his fate did not depend on his belief system. Hitler wanted to terminate the existence of any Jew. -- Yosi Hoshen Bell Laboratories Naperville, Illinois (312)-979-7321 Mail: ihnp4!ihuxn!jho
rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (03/07/84)
Interesting. If a Christian had written an article in net.religion proper using the same tone as Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo's article, talking about how his way of thinking was superior to other cultures, about how even members of his group should be considered vulgar if they do not adhere precisely to his traditions, he would be fried alive by any number of contributors, more than likely other Christians among them. I, for one, find this sort of talk as offensive as that which I see coming from many evangelistic Christian fundamentalists. Could someone please explain to me what the difference is? Granted, he is certainly right about the level of Jewish education among American Jews. It's a shame that, apparently, a significant level of Jewish education and practice is often accompanied by that sort of attitude. (This is certainly not confined to Judaism, but exists in any system of practices and ideals where there are purists and non-purists.) -- Pardon me for breathing, which I never do anyway oh, god, I'm so depressed... Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
burton@fortune.UUCP (03/07/84)
#R:ihuxt:-29800:fortune:39800006:000:1629
fortune!burton Mar 7 09:36:00 1984
Maybe, just maybe, Hitler and Eichmann intended to war only upon observant
Jews, but I can assure you that the populace in such countries as Poland
missed that subtlety. They enthusiastically pointed out to Germain authorities
those Jews who might have "passed." (There were, of course, exceptions,
includin the woman who gave my mother a place to hide, fixed her up with
identity papers - her own deceased daughter-, and actually taught my mother
enough to be able to pass herself off even in church.)
More generally, I would like to say the issue of revenge on Hitler cannot simply
be discussed according to observance. There are converted Jews, often as a
result of intermarriage, who are more observant than their Jewish spouses.
Such converts, however, are not "culturally" Jewish, and commentators are
worrying that this influence could hasten "assimilation".
Further, it is not possible, except among the ultra-Orthodox, to define
Jews according to the level of observance.
Still further, for people like my parents, who did not see G-d intervene in
the Holocaust, there are serious doubts about observance. *Survival* may not
seem like much to people who are comfortable in the U.S. and whose biggest
exposure to war has been a draft notice (which they somehow avoided). But,
to people who lost everyone they knew because of starvation, the gas chambers,
random killings by non-Jews, war actions, etc.
Philip Burton 101 Twin Dolphin Drive
Fortune Systems Redwood City, CA 94065 (415) 595-8444 x 526
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