haber@aecom.UUCP (05/07/84)
> just one correction. we do not say > hallel on purim. we read the megilla > in its place. Sorry! My mistake! I got confused between Al Hanissim and Hallel (don't ask me why!). Eli Haber {pegasus,cucard,esquire,philabs}!aecom!haber
rao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner) (05/13/84)
I would like to comment on anu,ber of articles I've seen lately,specifically
by Eliyahu Teitz.
With regards to the Satmar 'Rav': yes, I've read his 'sefer' (Va'Yohel Moshe),
and I have doubts if I should call it a sefer. There are without exaggeration
over 100 misquotes and stupidicies mentioned in that book. There are about
5 seferim written specifically to refute the shtoot (shtus) loaded in that book.
In other words, don't look to the Satmar Rav for comment on Israel.
The fact that the Israeli government is secular, is actually a very good
point. the problem could be solved by looking in mesechet Megilla (I don't
remember which daf) which talks about that salavtion will be even be
achieved before all Israel is chozer bi'tshuva. I other words, a religious
Jewish state is NOT a necessity , although it is ideal.
Ok. No, Arik Sharon is not shomer mitzvot, BUT the work he has done and is doing
dwarfs that fact.
I still disagree over Mr. teitz's insistance that Hallel cannot be recited.
Just think about it: Israel is now in Jewish hands. 100 , 200, 400, 1000, 1500
years ago IT WAS NOT IN OUR HANDS, BUT NOW IT IS!!!!! Obviuosly it is
a major nes in along time. Therefore that Rabbinut in Israel in their finite
wisdom decided that it is proper to say Hallel. ( I hope your not arguing
that they have no right to do this, because it is clearly written that they do).
Enough for now,
--
Eli Posner
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!utcsstat!raoteitz@aecom.UUCP (05/15/84)
In response to the comment on my article by Mr. Posner let me say a few things.
Firstly, the Satmar Rav, whether you agree with what he said ( and i do not
include myself among the agreers to his philosophy ), was a gadol batorah ( a
sage, literally great in torah ), and is entitled to his own opinion. No one
is forced to listen to it, but don't call it shtus ( foolishness ). I, too,
get upset when I hear Satmar self-righteous pomposity. I only mentioned
Satmar to show that there are people who think the State of Israel is not only
not a miracle to be lauded, but an action to be ignored and ridiculed.
Next, the gemara that you quoted from megilla, as I recall, and i might be
wrong, says that moshiach will come when the Jews are either totally righteous
or totally unrighteous (sinners). What this has to do with a political state
I don't know. Also, if the state promotes irreligiousness ( or however you
want to call non-observance ), what good is that state to the Jews ? For
such a state we recite hallel ???
The fact that Ariel Sharon is not religious does not detract from his
military achievments. A person who dies for the state, protecting other
Jews, in my eyes, deserves greater recognition and reward ( in heaven )
than a scolar who sat and learned torah all his life, because the soldier
made the supreme sacrifice for the protection and honor of the Jews and all
they stand for. I say this whether or not the soldier was religious. In
fact, those people who do not go to the army in Israel, are shirking a
responsibility for which they will have to answer in the future. If a
person sincerely wants to learn torah and dedicate his life to it, then I
have no complaints. However, to use the study of torah as an excuse not to
serve in the army is cowardly and only gives the non-religious more ammun-
ition with which to attack the religious.
A person's private convictions make no difference on the national scene.
However, the national religious belief should be conducive to observance.
If it indeed becomes conducive to religion, then I agree that hallel could
be said.
To look down at anyone who does not say hallel and call him a non-believer,
however, is also wrong. Not saying hallel does not mean that one is not
appreciative of the gift G-d gave us. It only means that in its present form,
the gift is nothing to cheer about. We must work together to improve the
government and make it more comfortable for everyone, regardless of personal
belief.
In closing, I have just one question. Where is it "written" that the
religious leadership in our days has the right to decree when hallel should
and should not be said. Now that s'micha ( ordination ) in its original
form has been abolished ( it's already close to 2000 years since te last
ordained rabbi [ ordination meant acceptance as a rabbi from a previously or-
dained rabbi, going back to Moses ]), many laws that apply to the rabbinate
can not be implemented.
The Satmar approach only breed hatred. Let us not fall into their trap and
stoop to their level.
Hamitzapeh l'mashiach b'chol yom,
( he who awaits the Messiahs coming every day )
Eliyahu Teitz.
rao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner) (05/18/84)
Re: article by Mr. Teitz.
I'll tell you why the Rabbinut in Israel has the right to proclaim Hallel.
The only way Smicha can be returned to Jewish life is for someone Smicha'd to
Somache someone else. But the problem is; there are no Rabbis nowadays
that have the real Smicha. BUT if there is a general consensus among all
jews in Israel then they are allowed to Somache someone. Anyways the reason I
mentioned this was to show that in Israel the powers of the Rabbis is greater.
In addtion, the Gemara says "Avira D'aretz Yisrael Machkim" - "the 'atmosphere
of israel is smarter". meaner they (the Rabbis) are 'greater' but not
necessarily more knowledgeable. You know what I'm getting at.
BTW - since someone (I don't remember who) called the "Neturai Karta" crazy.,
I'll add to it.
Not only are they crazy but they also are insanely UNreligious.
After the 1967 war, the Neturai Karta [get ready for this....] made
a deal with Jordan, that the Neturai Karta will help the Jordanians inreturn
for letting the N.K. live in Jerusalem after the Jordainans recapture it (!).
G-d forgive them.
--
Eli Posner
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!utcsstat!rao