haber@aecom.UUCP (05/07/84)
Many people do not consider the formation of a Jewish
state ( and the Israeli military victories) a miracle.
Others say that even if it is a miracle, we do not say
Hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut (with or wihout a bracha) because
we might be saying a "Shem Hashem L'vatalla" (name of
of G-d in vain).
I personally DO say Hallel WITH a bracha. I have no problem
considering the formation of a Jewish state a miracle. I
feel that great military victories (such as the recapturing
of Jerusalem) are reason for saying Hallel. One basis for this
argument is the fact that we say Hallel on Purim and Hannukah.
In both cases we are celebrating military victories (most rabbis
hold that the main celebration of Hannukah is NOT the miracle
of the oil - but rather the fact the the Jews defeated the
Greeks). In the case of Purim, the is no "clear-cut" miracle
at all.
As for the people who do not say Hallel: I can understand
their reasons and I don't have anything against them. The high
school I went to (Talmudical Academy of Balto.) was definitely
against saying Hallel. However, I can not understant the view
of the last Satmar Rebbe z"l who claims that the Israeli mili-
tary victories are the workings of the Satton ("Satan").
Well, I just wanted to get that off my chest. Please do not
flame me about grammar or translteration etc. Also, if you dis-
agree with my views, please don't get too emotional when you
respond, as I've noticed some net people tend to do just that.
Eli Haber
{cucard,pegasus,esquire,philabs}!aecom!haberteitz@aecom.UUCP (05/07/84)
i should have read all the articles and responded at once, and now i have learned my lesson. the reason the satmar rebbe called the victories the work of satan is as i explained earlier, the politicians are hardly acting in a jewish way. in fact, the satmar claim it would be better not to have israel than to have it and desecrate it. after all the jews survived two millenia without it , they'll survive a few more years without it. just one correction. we do not say hallel on purim. we read the megilla in its place. eliyahu teitz
hbb@houxt.UUCP (05/14/84)
I heard from Rabbi Rakefet in Israel, that there is a special
reason that the Satmar Rebbe opposed the State of Israel in
addition to reasons relating to any violations that the secular
government had made or might make.
He claimed that in Europe, the Satmar Rebbe had a 'Talmid Muvhak'
(or a prize student - roughly translated,) that emigrated to
Israel and was killed on the way. The Satmar Rebbe took this as a
'simmon' (a sign) that it was not proper for the Jews to attempt
to set up a community until the comming of the Messianic period.
--
Harlan B. Braude
{houxm,allegra,harpo,hogpc,ihnp4,zehntel,ucbvax,sdcsvax,eagle,burl}!houxt!hbbrao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner) (05/17/84)
From: hbb@houxt.UUCP >I heard from Rabbi Rakefet in Israel, that there is a special >reason that the Satmar Rebbe opposed the State of Israel in >addition to reasons relating to any violations that the secular >government had made or might make. > >He claimed that in Europe, the Satmar Rebbe had a 'Talmid Muvhak' >(or a prize student - roughly translated,) that emigrated to >Israel and was killed on the way. The Satmar Rebbe took this as a >'simmon' (a sign) that it was not proper for the Jews to attempt >to set up a community until the comming of the Messianic period. Hold it one minute here! Let me get this straight: his student died on the way to Eretz Israel, therefore Midinat Yisrael is bad. Very interesting. Well, I just lost the last few drops of respect for the Satmar 'Rav'. Please tell me that this story is not true, because it is plain Loshon Horoh. Houxt!hbb, you just made the Satmar rav look like a fool! I don't think a personal tragedy is enough to make important and influential decisions like the one the Satmar Rav has made . In addition, who is the Satmar Rav to decide what's good or what's bad especially against something which is so obviously prescribed ot us beforehand. Hey, if the Satmar Rav is so keen on Simmonim, why does he ignore the obvious ones: 1) Israel blossoming only once it's in Jewish hands 2) Kibbutz Goliot 3) 1948 War - militarily impossible for the Jews to have won; but we did 4) 1967 - speaks for itself. Yerushalim returned to the Jews 5) Lebanon War - the dogfights and tank battles with Syria can not be anything besides a miracle. To be honest, I don't think the Israeli soldier is 100 times superior to the Syrian soldier, but 86 to 1 was the score. And so on and so on..... Also, who says the Talmid's death was a bad sign? Death <> bad. Hey, what does one thing have to do with the other? My student dies going to Israel therefore Israel is bad? Is this bad logic , or am I missing something? -- Eli Posner {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!utcsstat!rao
hbb@houxt.UUCP (05/17/84)
I am responding to Eli Posner's followup of an article I posted,
where I quoted a Rabbi in Israel as having stated that the Satmar
Rebbe's opposition to pre-messianic settlement in Israel stemmed
from a personal tragedy.
The use of signs of this sort to gain insight into difficult
issues is not a new one (These signs would not be considered
case that I heard from a different rabbi, where some respected
sages considered the possibility of reinstituting the 'Karban
Pesach' in Israel. They lived outside of Israel, themselves. I
believe that the issue was raised during the time of the Maharal
Miprag and came up again during the time of Rav Kook z"l in
the early part of this century (the first Rav Kook, z"l, that
is.)
The idea was that since 'Tuma hootra betzibur' (ask someone you
respect for a good explanation,) and some other reasons I do not
recall, the 'Karban Pesach' could be sacrificed without a 'Beit
Hamikdash', etc.
At any rate, some tragedy occurred in that situation, and it was
taken as a the details and I apologize for that. I know how
frustrating that can be to people trying to make sense of what I
am writing.
Harlan Braude
houxt!hbb
--
Harlan B. Braude
{houxm,allegra,harpo,hogpc,ihnp4,zehntel,ucbvax,sdcsvax,eagle,burl}!houxt!hbbrao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner) (05/19/84)
I would just like to add to houxt!hbb's recent posting in which
he stated correctly that the 'korbon pesach' could be returned.
Not only that, but a Sanhedrin could easily be formed nowadays halakhily.
MOST korbonot could also be reinstated. (Maybe not most, but some)
I really don't know the reason why no one acts and does this, but
I suspect it's because people wouldn't be comfortable to see this because
they aren't used to it. They are probably waiting for the Messiah.
--
Eli Posner
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!utcsstat!raoteitz@aecom.UUCP (05/23/84)
Dear Mr. Posner, As I remember, and I may be wrong, the only way to reinstitute smicha is if all Jews agree on the person to be musmach. And even if it is only for Israeli Jews to decide, then it applies only to those living in the Halachik boundaries of Israel, which are nothing like the present day borders. And, even if it applies only to the Jews in the Halachik boundaries, no matter how much you dislike the niturei karta ( and I like them even less), they are Jews, and they live in Israel, and they'd never agree on a candidate for smicha. elli teitz.