baral@ihuxu.UUCP (Elliott Baral) (05/16/84)
It was asked, "Does waiting for the clear presence of the Messiah before making aliyah show any faith or courage?" Loaded question (particularly in its original context). Let's take a specific example - today. Do today's current events clearly indicate the presence of the Messiah? No? Then it requires honesty to deny that the Messiah has arrived, it requires faith to continue to assert that he will despite popular despair, and it requires courage (i.e., strength of will) to express the truth in the face of public derision and indifference. I have heard it said that that the Messiah is present in every generation, but that he does not reveal himself unless the generation merits it. If this is true, then making or not making aliyah has nothing to do with showing faith or courage. Elliott Baral {ihnp4,pegasus}!ihuxu!baral
martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (Yehoyaqim Martillo) (05/16/84)
I asked the question because most Sefardim I know and because many Sefardi Hakamim whom I have met or whose works I have read have tended to question the purity of motive of the rebbes and their congregations who live in New York. Life in the USA is a lot easier than in Israel. There are many more ways to earn a lot of money. I personally think these reasons for living in the USA are perfectly good and understandable but if the Szatmarer Rebbe had lived in Jerusalem, when he argued against the hastening of the coming of the Messiah, more Sefardim would tend to believe in the high-mindedness of his arguments. (Though I confess most Sefardim consider the neturei karta' simply assholes.) Many of these arguments are rather querulous anyway. Wining rather than acting and communal infighting were some of the worse characteristics of Jewish life in Eastern Europe. The Sefardi solution was much simpler -- just have enough children to dominate the body politic. Of course, the question of hastening the messiah is irrelevant for most aliyah from N. America. Many Ashkenazim historically supported Zionism because the less assimilable Jews would go there, and then they would be free to vanish into non-Jewish society. Such motives were strongly operative among American Jews after WWII. After all, all those refugees might come to the USA. Thus a majority of American Jews supported Zionism with no intention of ever making aliyah. In fact, if their children ever should consider making aliyah, the Americanness of that whole generation would become questionable. Therefore, the Jews of the baby boom were given an education to hasten maximally the disappearance of American Jewry into non-Jewish society. American Jews according to the last articles I have read are the most Jewishly-illiterate Jews in the world today and perhaps that have ever existed. Not surprisingly, American Jewish leaders are increasingly disturbed at the behavior of the state of Israel. They see the purpose of Israel to make their situation in America more secure. However, a larger Jewish population would make the situation of Israel more secure. If Israeli foreign policy has a side-effect of making Jews feel a little less secure in America and if American Jews then were driven to make aliyah, many in Israel would hardly consider such a side-effect negative.
burton@fortune.UUCP (05/24/84)
#R:ihuxt:-49100:fortune:39800013:000:851 fortune!burton May 23 12:11:00 1984 I have often disagreed with martillo, in private over the telephone, and in public in *.religion.jewish. So I really should state that he is absolutely correct in describing wining (sic) instead of action as one of the traits of pre-WW II Eastern European Jewish life. One of the saddest aspects of the Holocaust was the inactivity of the local populaces even in the face of ;information about Hitler. Even in 1935, all you had to do was read "Mein kampf" and know that Hitler was a madman, and therefore it was time to do something, even get out. Some of my great uncles did that, but most of the others just sat and waited and hoped vainly. Philip Burton 101 Twin Dolphin Drive-MS 133 Fortune Systems Redwood City, CA 94065 (415) 595-8444 x 526 - - - {ihnp4 [ucbvax | decvax!decwrl]!amd70 harpo hpda }!fortune!burton