trb@masscomp.UUCP (06/02/84)
akgua!rjb: >I am a redneck, but YOU better be careful in your reference to me >as same. See how it works ? An out group can abuse each other >with the member names but NON-members can't. I notice this among >other out groups (i.e. Blacks, Catholics ( regionally) etc.) >Do Jews do this too ? >How about it Jewish persons ? Is Goy (Goyim) etc. equal to some of the nasties >directed at Jews, Blacks, Irish, Catholics, ad nauseam,... This is a pretty sticky question, I don't see anyone else taking it. The word "goy" is sometimes used disparagingly, as is the word "foreigner." Certainly, when "goy" is used in Hebrew study as a word to mark a distinction between a Jew and a non-Jew, it is not used with negative connotation. Note that a Jew would never call another Jew a goy, not because it's so nasty, but because it doesn't apply. Would a redneck call another a redneck? (I don't know. What would it imply?) It's not common for a Jew to call another Jew any of the common disparaging names for Jews (I won't bother listing them here), even in a friendly way as I sometimes see my black friends call each other certain names. I'm not trying to make a judgement here, just share my experience. I think I have skirted the issue... Jews sometimes speak of "goyim" with disdain. I would say that, often, Jews who speak about goyim are talking about them as outsiders, rather than as hated people. Jews and goyim as us and them. (This is hard to convey, and I don't feel that I quite have my finger on it...) (How many times have I gone through this before:) Negative connotation comes from the person who says the words, not from the words themselves. Some Jews are nasty bigots, and you will find nasty bigots in any other large group of people. These people will use words for nasty purposes. This should not taint the words, rather it should affect your respect for the individuals with the nasty ideals. I disagree with rjb about "how it works" (see above). He seems to think that only rednecks ("his kind") should be free to call him a redneck. Pray tell, what word should *I* use to describe a person who you'd call a redneck? "Redneck" serves a specific purpose for me. I think "yankee" would serve as a better example. You have little reason to call someone a goy, as I have little reason to call someone a yankee. Me? I work with goyim, right here at Masscomp. Andy Tannenbaum Masscomp Inc Westford MA (617) 692-6200 x274
jho@ihuxn.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) (06/03/84)
I agree "goy" is a neutral term when applied to non-Jews. It is a different story when this term is applied to Jews. It is then considered to be derogatory and insulting. If a Jew is labeled a goy, it means that that Jew is not observing Jewish religious laws; just like the goyim who do not observe these laws. As an agnostic/atheist Jew who expresses his heretical views, I received the "goy" label from orthodox Jews during heated religious debates in Jerusalem. -- Yosi Hoshen Bell Laboratories Naperville, Illinois (312)-979-7321 Mail: ihnp4!ihuxn!jho
dcs@homxa.UUCP (D.SIMEN) (06/04/84)
Nancy Miller writes: > I am given to understand, from my own upbringing, that shiker & shikse > are the terms meant to be derogatory for goyim and goyes (masculine > and feminine). Nice try, but not quite. In fact, "shigtse" or "shiktse" (often shortened to "shikse" *is* a feminine term for non-Jew (and *is* derogatory, although its use among Americans seems to be neutral, probably because they don't know the word's origins), but "shiker" (also spelled "shikker" or "shikkur" or "shikur") means "drunk" or "drunkard". Since "shigste" has appeared on the net, I'll spill the beans and give the masculine form: "sheigets" (in the Yidish* pronunciation). David ben Mord'kai Simen ...!homxa!dcs *which everyone knows is hopelessly vulgar.
segs@mhuxv.UUCP (slusky) (06/04/84)
I believe that the masculine of shikse is shaygetz. Shiker means drunk, doesn't it? Susan Slusky mhuxv!segs -- mhuxv!segs