dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (05/17/84)
My father-in-law (who is from the "old country") was horrified to
hear me whistling the other day, and told me that "Jews don't do that".
I happen to enjoy whistling (both Jewish and secular tunes) as an
occasional alternative to humming, singing, etc., when walking or doing
housework.
Is there any halachic reason not to whistle?
Dave Sherman
(Daniel Moshe ben Chaim Aharon)
Toronto
--
dave at Toronto (CSnet)
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!davekramer@aecom.UUCP (05/25/84)
I was asked to post the makor (source) of the Magen Avraham who says
that one is aloud to whistle on shabbos. It is in Siman 338 Se'if Katan
2. Look at the Ramah in Se'if 1 who seems to say that one is only aloud
to whistle in order to call someone but not to whistle a tune (this has to
do with a G'zayra not to play an instrument on shabbos lest you fix it which
is not aloud on Shabbos). But the M.A. disagrees and says that you could
even whistle a tune. Look it up for further clarification.
--
Benjy Kramer
{ihnp4|spike|rocky2|philabs|pegasus|esquire|cucard}!aecom!kramerglenng@dartvax.UUCP (Glenn C. Gabriel) (05/27/84)
I thought that demons were supposed to whistle and that's the reason we refrain from doing it, on Shabbat or not! Please correct me if I'm wrong (send mail, enough of this shvack issue on the net).
axm9839@acf4.UUCP (Asher Meth) (06/05/84)
Yom sheni leparshas beha-alosecha, 4 SIVAN 5744, 48 days in the Omer Glenn C. Gabriel says : >I thought that demons were supposed to whistle and that's >the reason we refrain from doing it, on Shabbat or not! >Please correct me if I'm wrong (send mail, enough of this >shvack issue on the net). Also in reply to Benjy Kramer who wrote : > I asked my Rebbe Rabbi Herschel Shachter whether there was a makor >(source) for an issur (prohibition) to whistle. He told me no and as a matter >of fact the Magen Avraham says that it is even permissible on Shabbat (or >Shabbis). He did tell me though that in Europe it was looked down upon >because they said that it's a goyish thing to do (whatever that means). But >there is no makor for this in halacha. Rabbi Shachter is a Rosh Yeshiva at >YU and is the Rabbi at the branch of K'hal Adas Yisrael (Breuers). His >psak is very reliable. I spoke with Rabbi Melech Shachter (Rabbi Herschel Shachter's father) who said something along the same lines as his son, as quoted by Benjy. However, just because "there is no makor for this in halacha" (Benjy's words) does *not* mean that you should reject outright such a custom. Perhaps it was not as widely followed in some circles as in others, but please, 'minhag yisroel din' and if the minhag does have some basis (even if it is not in halachah), and such minhagim don't just pop up out of nowhere, then we should temper the way we speak about them. In fact, if we say "a yid faift nisht" (belashon sagi nahor) - a jew does not whistle - then there is probably *some* source for it. There are many things that may not have a rigid source in halachah, but have a good source, none-the-less. My father mentioned to me a number of years ago (and i asked him again about it the other week) that his grandfather told him that "a yid faift nisht" and that the reason is that the sound is that of the name of some malach, and we don't generally say the names of malachim (something along these lines). It may have been more prevalent among chassidim than others; I don't know. My basic point here is that we should not reject out of hand something that sounds strange or foreign to us, especially without investigating it. There are many minhagim that are particular to specific groups, and to those not in the group, they may seem strange and "may have no basis in halachah" - according to your vantage point. The minhag/custom may have a valid reason behind it. Intolerance is a terrible thing. Granted that intolerance has its place, but more often, if we all practiced a little more tolerance this world would be a *much* better place to live in. I need not tell you of all the inter-group/sect fighting that goes on; we certainly do not have to add to the intra-sect fighting. A Gutten Yom-Tov (or, as we say in Yiddish - A Gutten Yontif !). Asher Meth allegra!cmcl2!acf4!axm9839
axm9839@acf4.UUCP (Asher Meth) (06/10/84)
Or leyom rishon leparshas shelach, 10 SIVAN 5744.
I would like to clarify something i wrote in a previous article about minhagim.
I wrote that 'minhag yisroel din' and one should not categorically throw out
and just disregard any and all minhagim. I should qualify this by saying that
minhagim should be checked out (esp. if it is something that you want to
accept upon yourself or upon the community). Minhagim that were instituted by
gedolim (great rabbis), be they chassidim or misnagdim, and that were
instituted in a 'kehillah' setting, have a much stronger basis than other kinds
of minhagim, e.g., a three or four year old 'minhag of this shul' that was
instituted by Mr. X because that is the way he saw it done in some other 'new'
shul (i.e., not from the old country with years of custom behind it), and since
we have done it this way in this shul (that is only in existence these past
three years) that is the 'minhag of the shul' and you can't do differently !!
This 'other kind' cannot be classified in the same way as minhagim that date
back centuries in time, and were instituted by great rabbonim who knew what
they were doing. I question whether this 'other kind' can really be called
'minhag'.
Another thing that a friend pointed out to me is that some minhagim develop
from very strange circumstances - (1) the chazzan (cantor) would always
slightly bow his head when he descended from the raised shulchan with the torah
in his hands, to return it to the aron (ark) before mussaf; why?? that's the
way it has been done in this shul for years !!! The old man on the side
explained the origin of this 'minhag' - in the old shul building
it seems that there was a low ceiling at the step where the chazzan descended
from the shulchan, and he bowed his head to protect himself from banging it !!
Of course, no one remembered the *reason* for the head-bowing, just that it was
'custom' to do it in the shul, and we don't tamper with customs.
(2) My friend mentioned that a girl asked to borrow a ring to put in her mouth
when she went to wash her hands 'al netilas yodoyim' before a meal. She had
always seen other girls and women do it, so she thought that you were
*supposed* to do it this way. What she didn't realize is that it was a
convenient place to put the ring while washing, but that it was not necessary
to have a ring and to put it in your mouth while washing.
So, in summing up, not *all* minhagim have a good basis. It would be a good
idea to check the source of a minhag before you adopt it for yourself. Many
minhagim were instituted by great rabbonim and *do* have a good basis, even if
the basis cannot be found in halachah (in the strict sense of the word). Some
minhagim may have bases in 'kabbalah' or other teachings that are not available
to all. If you see someone doing something that you are not familiar with, why
not ask ??? You might even get a very good explanation for what the other
person is doing, and if he does not have an answer, suggest that he go back to
the person he learned it from to find out *why* he does it that way; or, ask a
competent and *well-versed* (and i stress that) rabbi and see what he says.
Asher Meth
allegra!cmcl2!acf4!axm9839