segs@mhuxv.UUCP (slusky) (08/20/84)
With respect to the fuss going on about the religious parties in Israel demanding that the Law of Return be changed to exclude those converted by Reform or Conservative rabbis: I thought that this was already how it operated and that such a convert would have to figure on going to mikveh again in Israel if he or she intended to get Israeli citizenship based on the Law of Return. In fact, I would have guessed that even if one were converted by an Orthodox rabbi in the Diaspora, that rather than go through the hassle of checking up on the conversion and on the rabbi's credentials, a second trip to the mikveh would be required. Are they just demanding that current practice be made more explicit in the law or is my understanding of how things work now all wrong? Susan Slusky mhuxv!segs -- mhuxv!segs
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yiri Ben David) (08/28/84)
The credentials of the officiating rabbi is checked for all converts applying to make aliyah. If the rabbi in question is not among the registry of orthodox rabbis then the convert is not a Jew for purposes of the Law of Return - as well as for purposes of marriage in Israel, and the children of such a marriage are not recognized as Jews in Israel. Similarly, the officiating rabbi is checked for marriages and non-orthodox marriages are not recognized in Israel - and so the children are not recognized as Jews in Israel. The changes in the Law of Return then become more apparent. Also, the ramifications become clearer. Orthodox Jews could be deceived into allowing their children to marry "papered" goyim (in their eyes) unknowingly. Children of Levite and Kohane present similar difficulties. From time to time, there are interesting updates in the English-language Jerusalem Post. Contact the local library or me if you need their address. Hope this helps. Yirmiyahu Ben-David UCF Orlando, Fl.
segs@mhuxv.UUCP (slusky) (08/29/84)
Yiri Ben David says: >The credentials of the officiating rabbi is checked for all converts >applying to make aliyah. If the rabbi in question is not among the >registry of orthodox rabbis then the convert is not a Jew for purposes >of the Law of Return - as well as for purposes of marriage in Israel, >and the children of such a marriage are not recognized as Jews in >Israel. I presume that you mean that the children of an invalid female convert are not recognized as Jews in Israel. Certainly the children of a born- Jewish mother and an invalid made-Jewish father are recognized as Jews, aren't they? This would be true even if no conversion took place and the father a practicing something-else. >Similarly, the officiating rabbi is checked for marriages and >non-orthodox marriages are not recognized in Israel - and so the >children are not recognized as Jews in Israel. Again, this doesn't ring true. The children of Jews are Jews whether or not the parents are married. Of course, the kids may be mamzerim if the mother is halakhically married to someone else. But they're still Jews. Also, I take it that you are describing the way the situation would be if the words according to halacha were added in. Either that or the fellow who wrote in saying that the examination of conversion papers for citizenship is usually done by none-too-picky secular Israelis was wrong. Susan Slusky mhuxv!segs -- mhuxv!segs
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (David) (08/31/84)
Your observation regarding women converts vis-a-vis recognition of the children as Jews is quite correct. It was an oversight on my part in stating the answer. Yes, the same is true (to the best of my knowledge) regarding marriages (for both the oversight and the recognition). Regarding the processing of conversion papers for potential olim, I can only pass on an incident related to me by a close friend (who is also an orthodox rabbi). Recently (I don't know exactly when), aliyah application papers submitted to Jerusalem included conversion papers. The officiating rabbi was an orthodox rabbi. However, one of the witnesses was a reform rabbi. That would not be a problem ordinarily as he would be accepted as a witness. However, he signed 'Rav' after his name on the witness line and there was a hell of a flap over the whole thing because they had checked the registry and he was not a rabbi according to their records. So rather than really answer that question when I really don't know, I pass that along and you can draw your own conclusions too. Yirmiyahu Ben-David -- Yirmiyahu Ben-David ...decvax!ucf-cs!Ben-David or ...duke!ucf-cs!Ben-David Ben-David.ucf-cs@Rand-Relay