wkp@lanl-a.UUCP (10/05/84)
>Bill, Christianity did not Judaize the pagan world in any sense. >Rather, Christianity paganized (Roman-ized) the teachings of a >Jewish sect known as the N'tzarim and spread the corrupted >teachings to the world. Christianity is not Jewish in any sense >and cannot therefore, Judaize. You can't have it both ways. Either Christianity is not Jewish in any sense, or it is a paganization of the teachings of a Jewish sect that spread its corrupted teachings around the world. >Secondly, materialism was never the primary motivating factor >in the presecutions under Constantine, the Crusaders, the >Spanish Inquisition, nor Hitler...the persecutions were fueled >by Christian concerns more than materialism. The persecutions >would never have caught on due to materialism alone, but the >converse does not hold. Therefore, I conclude that Christianity >is FAR worse than materialism. Your view is too simplistic. Most of the crimes which you ascribe to Christianity should instead be ascribed to a combination of religious fervor, racism, nationalism, materialism, economics, etc. >On behalf of that Jewish mother I'm deeply offended >and grieved by your callous and cavalier 'holier-than-thou' >attitude. She may be ashamed to confront you but >someone needs to point out the effect of such attitudes >and the consequences. It is this attitude which has >alienated so many who were brought up in religious homes and who >once attended synagogue themself. You seem to think there is >something wrong with them. I feel there is something wrong with >the way we are doing things - and this is one. I don't think that I conveyed a cavalier or callous attitude in regards to that woman. I agree with you that we need to do something about alienated Jews, but perhaps you should agree with me that it is not *our* fault that such Jews exist. Yiri, you insist that I don't have any feelings towards the poor. What is your feeling about synagogues *selling* seats on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur for $250 upward? How can the poor afford that? Or *selling* aliyot to recite the brachot over the Torah? How can any religious Jew defend that? No, I refuse to accept responsibility for such hypocrisy. However, all of us are responsible in some degree for not trying to right the wrongs we do see. Is that your point? If so, do you have any suggestions? Gamar Hatimah Tovah to everyone. Bill Peter
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (10/07/84)
In response to the last article by Bill Peter. Yes, in your last paragraph you have indeed struck upon the point I was attempting to make. We can try blaming everything in the universe for these ills but I see nothing else which will have constructive results except accepting the blame ourselves. We are the only ones who can change them. Regarding suggestions, discussion is a beginning (feeble and oft-tried as it is). Perhaps the suggestions of one being placed before many and being processed through the minds of others and enhanced thereby, and further processed in this way - eventually something workable may come out. Think tank tactics. At least one prerequisite is that we apply ourselves to that issue. Throw out some ideas. Don't be afraid of 'flames'. One of the most obvious suggestions I can think of is for those of us who are generally concerned to accept the blame that WE haven't changed things. YOU (each reader) take some direct action to change things for the better - and not just one action either! You must continue as long as there is breath in your lungs. I'm certainly NOT advocating contri- buting to some campaign to do it for you either (emphatically not - YOU must DO something). That is not to say that organ- ized efforts should not be supported, they should - but not in place of direct personal action. What kinds of direct personal action are there? How many of you bothered to communicate to the Jewish mother on net.kids, without condemnation or any holier-than-thou cavalierness, that you were concerned, that you cared, that you were sympathetic, that you were willing to be a friend and help if you could? I can tell you that she has not been over- whelmed by caring, concerned Jews!!! This is what you can do on a personal basis, not just for this woman, but for the other families like hers in YOUR community. We managed to turn them off because of our callous attitude and it is us who must change that, but this means that YOU and I must be PERSONALLY and ACTIVELY INVOLVED. You cannont simply send your rabbi to do the job for you. If you do not do this then I tell you that I regard YOU as part of the problem rather than part of the solution. It is caring and loving INDIVIDUAL Jews who will or will not make the difference, not any Jewish organization. Organizations are good for accomplishing many things, but dealing with individuals on a personal level requires an individual representing them- self, not some organization they stand for. You can argue for social service and counselling organizations ad infinitum but I will continue to maintain that, no matter how dedicated the organization worker, and no matter his/her supposed ex- pertise, they cannot have the impact of a caring and loving individual acting out of his/her own caring and love. Well, feeble as it may be, that is at least a start.