dk@browngr.UUCP (David Kantrowitz) (10/21/84)
> A simple quote from a sage does not satisfy me. > While it may be an upopoular (?) point of view, I do not accept a notion > simply because the sages/rabbis say it is so. For me at least, that is > insufficient grounds. I insist on demonstrating some reasonable grounds > for everything from written Torah. ... > ... But sages are subject to error, > and it is the Creator I serve, not the sages. The sages served the > Creator just as I do and, conversely, I serve the Creator just like > theyt did. They may have been more learned. On the other hand, they may > also have been mistaken in some matters. Reason and statistics would > seem to argue the likelihood that they were mistaken here and there. > Unlike the pope, they didn't pretend to be inerrant. 1. To insist on proofs from written Torah is to deny the validity of the Oral Law. 2. If you serve the Creator, you must listen to the sages, as it says in Pareshat Shofetim (somewhere in Deutoronomy, exact reference available on request), "According to the Torah which they will teach you and by the law that they tell you you will do. You will not stray from the thing they tell you right or left." To separate yourself from the sages, therefore, is ludicrous. By the Torah you are *obligated* to listen to the sages and do as they say. You cannot follow the Torah without listening to the sages, and you cannot decide things for yourself as long as there are higher authorities to go by. 3. Better scientific knowledge these days and perhaps even better religious knowledge does not exempt one from following the sages, for two reasons: A. We have authorities today to ask. If they uphold the medieval sage's ruling, then who are we to disagree? B. EVEN IF THEY MAKE MISTAKES, in some cases their word is the Torah. In all cases we are obligated to listen to them until a ruling is changed or corrected. The point of that quotation to follow the sage's words "right and left" is explained to mean even if they tell you that right is left and left is right (figuratively), you must still follow them (Rashi). The well-known story in the Gemarrah (probably not accurate in details): R. Eliezer had one opinion about a certain legal matter, and the majority rule was against him. Halakhah is decided by majority rule but R. Eliezer knew he was right. So he declared: "If I am right, that river will reverse its direction of flow." The river reversed its direction. "If I am right, that tree will uproot itself and move over." It did. "If I am right, let a heavenly voice say so." A voice came from the sky and said "R. Eliezer speaks the truth." Nevertheless, the majority rule held, because legal matters were not to be based on heavenly voices. A year later Elijah was asked what the Heavens' reaction to this event was. The response: God said, "my children have defeated me." Because they followed the rules of the Torah, they were able to force God's hand (metaphorically) in the determination of Halakhah. The point is that no matter what is determined by the Halakhic a authorities, God rubber stamps their decision, and even if erroneous, it becomes Halakhic truth. Sorry the story is so rough, but I have no time to look it up. David Kantrowitz decvax!brunix